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Full text of "Children and gun violence : hearings before the Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, One Hundred Third Congress, first session, on S. 1087 a bill to amend Title 18, United States Code, to be prohibit the possession of a handgun or ammunition by, or the private transfer of a handgun or ammunition to, a juvenile, Washington, DC, and Milwaukee, WI, June 9, and September 13, 1993"

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S. Hrg. 103-393 









S. 1087 




Serial No. J-103-18 

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 

75-909 CC WASHINGTON : 1994 

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office 
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington. DC 20402 
ISBN 0-16-0A3928-0 


S. Hrg. 103-393 









S. 1087 




Serial No. J-103-18 

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 

75-909 CC WASHINGTON : 1994 

For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office 
Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office. Washington, DC 20402 
ISBN 0-16-043928-0 

Boston Public Library 

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware, Chairman 

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts 
PAUL SIMON, lUinois 
HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin 

Cynthia C. Hogan, Chief Counsel 
Catherine M. Russell, Staff Director 

Sally Shafroth, Chief Clerk 

Mark R. Disler, Minority Staff Director 

Sharon Prost, Chief Counsel 

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina 
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 
HANK BROWN, Colorado 

Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice 

HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin, Chairman 


Joel Haubrich, Legislative Aide and Chief Clerk 
Jon Leibowitz, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 



Hearings held on: Page 

Wednesday, June 9, 1993, Washington, DC 1 

Friday, September 13, 1993, Milwaukee, WI 129 


Biden, Hon. Joseph R., a U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware 78 

Kohl, Hon. Herbert, a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin 1, 129 

Moseley-Braun, Hon. Carol, a U.S. Senator from the State of Illinois 68 

Cohen, Hon. William S., a U.S. Senator from the State of Maine 6 


S. 1087, a bill to amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the posses- 
sion of a handgun or ammunition by, or the private transfer of a handgun 
or ammunition to, a juvenile 3 


Wednesday, June 9, 1993 

Hon. John Chafee, a U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode Island 7 

Jennifer Ramsay 11 

Panel consisting of Janie R. Hill Hatton, principal, Milwaukee Trade and 
Technical High School; Dewey R. Stokes, national president. Grand Lodge, 
Fraternal Order of Police; and Dr. J. Alex Haller Jr., pediatric surgeon 
and director, Maryland Pediatric Trauma Center, and professor of Pediatric 

Surgery and Emergency Medicine, Johns Hopkins Children's Center 14 

Susan R. Lamson, director, Federal Affairs, Institute for Legislative Action, 
National Rifle Association of America; accompanied by Richard Gardiner, 

legislative counsel. National Rifle Association of America 69 

Sarah Brady, chairperson, Handgun Control, Inc., and the Center to Prevent 
Handgun Violence; accompanied by Dennis Hennigan, general counsel, The 
Center to Prevent Handgun Violence 81 

Friday, September 13, 1993 

Panel consisting of David Ledger, Greendale, WI and Verlinda Brown, Mil- 
waukee, WI 131 

Panel consisting of James Doyle, attorney general of the State of Wisconsin; 
Willie Jude, principal, Madison High School, Milwaukee, WI; Dr. Halim 
Hennes, associate professor of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital, Milwaukee, 
WI; and Reverend Gerald Saffold, Foundation of Prayer Church, Milwau- 
kee, WI 135 

James E. Fendry, legislative director, Wisconsin Rifle & Pistol Association, 
Hales Corners, WI 148 

Sarah Brady, chairperson. Handgun Control, Inc., and the Center to Prevent 
Handgun Violence 156 


Brady, Sarah: 

Testimony 81, 156 

Prepared statement 83 

A booklet from the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, 1225 Eye Street, 
NW., suite 1100, Washington, DC, June, 1993 85 





A. — Law Enforcement and Public Opinion Survey 114 

B. — ^Article from the Tribune Newspapers, "Gun-control group supporting 
cities' weapons ordinances," by Chris Coppola, Tribune writer, Dec. 

4, 1992 115 

C. — Article from The Wichita Eagle, "City OKs gun-control law for mi- 
nors," by Suzanne Perez, Mar. 24, 1993 117 

D. — Letter to concerned citizens, from Parents United — No Children's 
Handguns!, by Craig A. Silverman, legal adviser — PUNCH!, Dec. 19, 

1992 118 

E. — U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, "Age- 
Specific Arrest Rates and Race-Specific Arrest Rates for Selected Of- 
fenses 1965-1988, Uniform Crime Reporting Program, April 1990 119 

Uniform Crime Reports for the United States 1991 122 

Brown, Verlinda: Testimony 132 

Doyle, James: Testimony 135 

Fendry, James E.: 

Testimony 148 

A report from the Milwaukee Journal, by the journal staff, July 25, 

1993 155 

Haller, Jr., Dr. J. Alex: 

Testimony 55 

Prepared statement 56 

Hennes, Dr. Halim: Testimony 138 

Hill Hatton, Janie R.: 

Testimony 14 

Prepared statement 17 

Charts from Milwaukee Public Schools: 

Division of Student Services 19 

Guns Confiscated/Expulsions 20 

Jude, Willie: Testimony 137 

Lamson, Susan R.: 

Testimony 69 

Prepared statement 71 

Ledger, David: Testimony 131 

Ramsay, Jennifer: Testimony H 

Saffold, Rev. Gerald: Testimony 140 

Stokes, Dewey R.: 

Testimony 21 

Prepared statement 23 

A draft of a bill from the State of Ohio 25 

Photos of different types of guns, "Keep Children Safe," Lock up your 

Guns! 28 

Articles from the Plain Dealer: 

"Child safety gun bill puts onus on parents," by Benjamin Marnson, 

reporter, May 15, 1993 30 

"2 movies inspired violence report says," by Milwaukee Journal, June 

3, 1993 31 

Articles from thGi 

Washington Post, "Gun PipeUne: From Ohio To Streets of Philadelphia," 

by Michael Isikoff, staff writer, Mar. 12, 1991 33 

USA Today, "Kids, guns: 'It's shoot or be shot,'", by Andrea Stone and 

J. L. Albert, June 3, 1993 35 

"Teen deaths by guns set record in '90," report says. Mar. 24, 1993 .... 37 
"Sex harassment in school reflects culture in decline," by Mona 

Charen, June 7, 1993 39 

Boston Globe, "Schools must teach proper behavior," by Ellen Goodman ... 41 

City Bulletin, "Changes in 1991 Columbus City Code," Sept. 28, 1991 42 

School Security Report, Volume 9, Number 3, January, 1993 45 

News Release, "National Fraternal Order of Police," June 18, 1992 51 

A chart for 1991 Hunter Education Program Profile 52 

Wildlife Laws of Ohio 53 




Additional Submissions for the Record 

Prepared statement from Hon. Larry Pressler 161 

Letter from Susan R. Leimson to: 

Hon. Joseph Biden, dated July 11, 1993 161 

Federal Cases Regarding the Second Amendment, U.S. Supreme Court 

Cases 162 

Hon. Herbert Kohl, dated July 14, 1993 167 

Responses to questions submitted by Hon. Herbert Kohl 167 

Hon. Carol Moseley-Braun, dated July 11, 1993 169 

Handgun Hunting Regulation 170 

Articles dated Aug. 2, 1993, from: 

Newsweek, "Wild in the Streets," by Barbara Kantrowitz 175 

Time, "And His Gun," by Jon D. Hull 183 


U.S. Juvenile Weapons and Murder Arrests 191 

Wisconsin Juvenile Weapons and Murder Arrests 192 



U.S. Senate, 
Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice, 

Committee on the Judiciary, 

Washington, DC. 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 
SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Herbert Kohl, chair- 
man of the subcommittee, presiding. 
Also present: Senators Biden, Moseley-Braun, and Cohen. 


Senator Kohl. This hearing will come to order this morning. 

Over the last few years, while we have debated numerous crime 
bills, gim-related violence has nevertheless increased. Last year, 
roughly 15,000 Americans, including 3,000 juveniles, were mur- 
dered by firearms. Their lives were ended. Their family and friends 
were forced to grieve their deaths, and our whole Nation is bleed- 
ing as a result. The violence is killing all of us. It is killing our 
spirit, it is killing our hopes and, most sadly, it is killing our 

A few weeks ago, I saw some very graphic evidence of the impact 
that violence is having on us. I got a letter from a fourth-grade 
teacher in Mequon, WI, Ms. Figg. In her letter, she explained that 
her class had been studying Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a 
Dream" speech. One of the assignments she gave her students was 
to write their own "I Have a Dream" speech. It was, I thought, a 
creative assignment, and as I prepared to skim a few of the essays 
that she enclosed, I fully expected that these students from a pros- 
perous suburban community would be dreaming of a future full of 
good jobs, nice homes, and happy families. But that is not what I 
read, not at all. 

Many of the speeches, too many of the speeches, discussed far 
more basic dreams of the future. These kids dreamed of a future 
in which no more kids would be killed by guns. One student wrote, 
"Children are killing each other too much. We need to get guns off 
the street." Another child wrote, "I have a dream that kids can 
walk outside without worrying about someone killing them. I think 
guns are responsible for many children's deaths." 

Others in the class had similar dreams and, sadly, the dreams 
of these children reflect the fears of many Americans. According to 
a Harris poll released last week, one in five Americans know a 


child shot by another child, and 77 percent of the respondents feel 
that young people's safety is endangered by so many guns. 

Additional States tell an even more alarming story about how 
gun-related violence envelopes our young people. The National 
School Safety Center estimates that more than 100,000 students 
carry a gun to school every day; 100,000 students carry a gun to 
school every day. The leading cause of death for both black and 
white teenage boys in America is gunshot wounds. 

From our central cities to our rural communities, for kids who 
grow up in poverty and kids who grow up surrounded by affluence, 
it is all the same — a world of threats and violence and death, a 
world that was chronicled in last week's USA Today, which com- 
piled a week-by-week list of gun incidents in our Nation's schools 
this year. This is not the kind of world our children deserve. It is 
not the kind of world we ought to give them, but it is the world 
in which they live. 

There is no simple solution for the problem of kids and guns — 
one that I have been concerned with ever since coming to this body 
5 years ago. During the 101st Congress, I drafted the gun-free 
school zones bill, which is now putting people who bring guns near 
schools into jail. Today, I introduced the Youth Handgun Safety 
Act, which would make it a Federal crime to sell a handgun to a 
minor and for a minor to possess a handgun under most, but not 
all, circumstances. I am also a long-time backer of the Brady bill, 
and I expect it to be enacted this Congress. But the truth is that 
while these approaches are helpful, especially the Brady bill, they 
are not a panacea, and so we are here today to look at all aspects 
of the cure. 

In this quest, we are fortunate to have a diverse group of wit- 
nesses from the law enforcement, medical, and educational commu- 
nities, from Sarah Brady to the NRA. Though we may have dif- 
ferent approaches on how to reduce gun violence that afflicts our 
children, we all agree that we do need to reduce it. 

This hearing is an attempt to see if we can reach some consensus 
so that the students in Ms. Figg's fourth grade class will not have 
to dream of a world in which kids are safe from guns and violence. 
Instead, it will be a reality for them, a basic entitlement in their 
lives. Let the dreams of our children be as big as the dreams of Dr. 
Martin Luther King. Let them dream of a better future, not dread 
a present in which children are killed and maimed by guns. It is 
not something we can change overnight, but it is something that 
we can change. This is what the kids in Mequon and Milwaukee 
and every other community in our country and our Nation deserve. 

[The text of Senate bill 1087 follows:] 

103d congress 

1st Session 

S. 1087 

To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the possess on of a 
handgun or ammunition by, or the private transfer of a handgun or 
ammunition to, a juvenile. 


Juke 9 (legislative day, Juke 7), 1993 
Mr. Kohl (for himself, Ms. Moseley-Brauk, Mrs. Feinstein, and Mr. 
Lautenberg) introduced the followng bill; which was read tuice and 
referred to the Committee on the Judiciary 


To amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit the pos- 
session of a handgun or ammunition by, or the private 
transfer of a handgun or ammunition to, a juvenile. 

1 Be it enacted hy the Senate and House of Representa- 

2 tives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, 


4 This Act may be cited as the "Youth Handgun Safety 

5 Act of 1993" 







5 (a) Definition.— Section 921(a) of title 18, United 

6 States Code, is amended by adding at the end the foliow- 

7 ing new paragraph; 

8 "(29) The term 'liandgun' means — 

9 ''(A) a firearm that has a short stock and 

10 is designed to be held and fired by the use of 

11 a single hand: and 

12 "(B) any combination of pans from which 

13 a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be 

14 assembled.". 

15 (b) Offense.— Section 922 of title 18, United States 

16 Code, is amended by adding at the em] the foliowing new 

17 subsection. 

18 "(s)(l) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, 

19 deliver, or transfer to a juvenih^; — 

20 "(A) a handgun; or 

21 "(B) anununition that is suitable for use only 

22 in a handgun. 

23 "(2) It shall be unlawfiil for any pcisoi' who is a jave- 

24 nile to possess — 

25 "(A) a haridgun; oi- 

..S 1087 IS 


1 "(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only 

2 in a handgun. 

3 "(3) This subsection does not apply to a temporary 

4 transfer to, or possession by — 

5 "(A) a juvenile when the handgun is being used 

6 in target practice under the supervision of an adult 

7 who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law 

8 from possessing a firearm or in the course of in- 

9 struction in the traditional and proper use of the 

10 handgun under the supervision of such an adult; or 

11 "(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed 

12 Forces of the United States or the National Guard 

13 who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the 

14 line of duty. 

15 "(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term 'juve- 

16 nile' means a person who is less than 18 years of age.". 

17 (c) Penalty.— Section 924(a) of title 18, United 

18 States Code, is amended — 

19 (1) in paragraph (1) by striking "paragraph (2) 

20 or (3) of; and 

21 (2) by adding at the end the following new 

22 paragraph: 

23 "(5) A person who knowingly violates section 922(s) 

24 shall be fined not more than $1,000, imprisoned for not 

25 more than 1 year, or both.". 


•S 1087 IS 

Senator Kohl. We are pleased to be here, and I am pleased to 
have my cochairman here this morning, Senator Cohen, who is the 
ranking member of this subcommittee. 


Senator Cohen. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This is an 
important hearing. I see it as a complement to the hearing that 
was held yesterday, a joint subcommittee hearing trying to deter- 
mine how we can put a stop, or at least restrain the level of vio- 
lence that we see on television and its impact upon our children. 

I think that we have to come to grips with the fact that we are 
living in an increasingly violent society, and it is not only related 
to guns. It happens in movies. It also happens on athletic fields. 
We watch the kind of suicide squads that take the field on a kickoff 
and they hurl their bodies, without any regard to safety, at that 
of an opponent, with the hope of not only dislodging the ball, but 
dislodging some vertebra or some other part of the anatomy. We 
see the rewards that we grant to basketball players — Shaquille 
O'Neal, for example, who can tear down the backboard at any given 
moment, and does Pepsi ads to emphasize that point of strength in 
the violent act of ripping the board down. 

It is a problem we have to contend with throughout our society, 
and this urge to show strength is not something that is recent. It 
has been with us since man was born. It will probably continue to 
be with us, but it seems to me we have to try to develop in this 
country and in this world an ethic that rewards civility, that re- 
wards not anger and violence, but kindness, and we don't have that 
right now. 

We can point to virtually any part of the world and we can see 
the violence that is taking place, but that is not the subject of this 
hearing. To me, this hearing should not primarily be concerned or 
ifocused upon how children or youths acquire guns. We know it is 
illegal in our society to sell a weapon to a child. Ironically, it is not 
illegal for that juvenile to be in possession of the weapon. It is not 
necessary for young people to steal them. They can go to family or 
friends and acquire them. They can acquire them by gift and, of 
course, the line between a gift and what is merely a circumvention 
of a sale is fairly uncertain. We hope to deal with that in the com- 
ing hearings. 

Where juveniles get the idea that it is acceptable to kill is the 
notion, I think, that is destroying the core of this country's values. 

The problems of juvenile violence, we hope, could be easily solved 
by enacting tougher laws. I think that is unlikely, and so the prob- 
lem, it seems to me, that we need to address is the underlying rea- 
sons why juveniles carry handguns in the first place. 

Now, while this, again, is not the subject of this hearing, Mr. 
Chairman, I would suggest to you that there are some substantial 
disparities between those between the ages of 15 and 19 who are 
white and those who are black or Hispanic or other minorities, and 
I think that really pertains to another problem that is very deep- 
seated in this country, and that is racism. If you deprive people of 
the opportunity to have a part of the American dream, then they 

will find other ways in which to try to acquire it, not through legiti- 
mate ways or civil ways, but through violent ways. 

That is a problem that we have to deal with in another hearing, 
but not at another time. As long as blacks are killing blacks, there 
is very little response to all of that. But when whites start to be 
caught in that crossfire, suddenly you see quite a different reac- 
tion.We see it right here in the city of Washington. 

It is a problem that is endemic. We have to deal not only with 
the guns and the violence, but violence as a general subject matter, 
and I think underlying that the attitudes we have toward one an- 
other based upon race. 

So I appreciate your holding the hearing, Mr. Chairman. I look 
forward to hearing from our colleague. Senator Chafee, who stands 
alone perhaps in the Senate in leading an effort which he believes 
will lead to a reduction of the availability of weapons. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you very much. Senator Cohen. 

We do have as our first witness our friend and our colleague, 
Senator Chafee, who has long been active in this field. Senator 
Chafee, your legislation to ban handguns under most, but not all 
circumstances needs to be debated, but we are certainly glad that 
you are here today. Before you begin, I would just like to note that 
according to the latest Harris poll, as I am sure you know, a major- 
ity of Americans now favor congressional action on legislation such 
as the one that you support. 

So we are delighted to have you this morning. Senator Chafee. 


Senator Chafee. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and 
Senator Cohen. I appreciate the kind welcome you have given me, 
and I look forward to this opportunity to testify today. 

Mr. Chairman, I want to commend you for your bill. You have 
been long active in this area, and I think your Youth Handgun 
Safety Act is a gpod move and I hope it achieves passage. I know 
Senator Cohen has been long interested in this area, and his state- 
ment about the motivation and the violence in our society is cer- 
tainly pertinent to this discussion. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, your statement summarized a lot of the sta- 
tistics that are out there and I would just like to reinforce them, 
if I might. Currently, in the United States of America there are 70 
million handguns circulating in our society — 70 million, with 2 mil- 
lion being added every single year to that. Given the sheer number 
of these handguns, there is no place, apparently, in our society 
where a child can find a safe haven. They can't find it homes, they 
can't find it in the parks. They can't find it, tragically enough, in 
their schools, in their playgrounds, in malls, in streets, yards, or 

Just listen to these incidents. In College Station, TX, last Decem- 
ber, a 5-year-old girl and a 7-year-old girl were caught in the mid- 
dle of a gun fight at a shopping mall and were hit by three of the 
shots. A 14-year-old Chicago boy visiting his grandmother's home 
at Christmas was killed when a stray bullet ripped through her 
window and hit him in the head. 


A 15-year-old was injured at Maryland's Addison Road Metro 
Station by another passenger who fired a 9-millimeter handgun. A 
15-year-old, Alain Colaco — ^you will remember this incident, prob- 
ably, it was just a year ago — ^Alain was weeding in his front yard 
in the District last August, when a stranger came up and fired a 
handgun repeatedly at him and killed him. He was 15 years old. 

Exactly 1 year ago, a 6-year-old boy in Connecticut was riding 
the school bus home from kindergarten — if there is any safe place 
in the world, you would think it would be a kindergarten school 
bus — when he was hit in the head by a 9-millimeter slug when the 
bus drove through a fusillade of handgun shots from either side. 

The home is a particularly dangerous place if a handgun is kept 
there for, quote, "self-protection." There is nothing more dangerous 
than having a handgun in a house. Each year, more than 500 chil- 
dren accidentally shoot themselves or a sibling with a handgun. 

Last December in Miami, a 3-year-old was seriously wounded 
after being shot by his 14 year old brother who was playing with 
a .357 Magnum. In March of this year, a 3-year-old New York City 
boy suffered an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. 
He was with his babysitter at her friend's house and a gun was 

And children may impulsively use the gun that's kept in the 
home to commit suicide. Every year, nearly 1,500 children comniit 
suicide with a gun, usually because the gun is right handy. Chil- 
dren, as you noted, Mr. Chairman, in that horrifying statistic that 
you gave, are bringing handguns to school. What the exact esti- 
mate is, I don't know. You indicated 100,000 children every day 
bring a handgun to school. My statistics showed 135,000 — ^but 
whatever it is, it just is mind-boggUng. 

Over 100,000 youngsters in the United States of America bring 
a handgun to school every day. That doesn't mean the same ones 
bring it, but every day over 100,000 handguns are brought to 
school. And it is not just in the urban areas. Rural principals re- 
port more guns in their schools, and the results are tragic. 

In January of this year, a Los Angeles boy was killed and an- 
other wounded in a high school classroom by fire from a gun 
brought to school by a third student. The .357 Magnum went off 
accidentally when he reached into his handbag. In Harlem, GA — 
not Harlem, NY; but Harlem, GA— a ninth-grader opened fire with 
a revolver in a school hallway, killing one teen and wounding an- 

In my little State of Rhode Island, this year alone we have had 
nine school handgun incidents. Two days ago, on Monday, a 16- 
year-old Brooklyn student was chased by two older boys and shot 
multiple times at close range while he begged and pleaded for his 

You quoted quite accurately that article from last Thursdays 
USA Today which recounts the incidents, starting with September, 
just this past school year of the shootings in schools. You have got 
the article right there, Mr. Chairman. I commend you for it. On 
and on it goes, and these events are becoming more and more prev- 

Last week, as you mentioned, Lou Harris released a poll showing 
heavy public support for handgun control. This was a very interest- 

ing poll, Mr. Chairman and Senator Cohen. If you start at the bot- 
tom of the chart I brought, you will note the vertical columns. It 
says "yes" in the first one, "no" in the second, the question asked 
is: do you support handgun bans? 

Chronologically, working upward from the bottom, March 1989, 
41 yes, 55 no; a year-and-a-half later, 41, 55, exactly the same; a 
year-and-a-half after that, January of 1992, 41 yes, banning hand- 
guns totally, 56 no; and now Lou Harris, a year-and-a-half later, 
52 percent yes, ban them all, and 43 percent no — an extraordinary 
change, due to the handgun slaughter that is taking place today. 

What could bring it home more clearly than the fact that the 
largest cause of death amongst blackmale youngsters between the 
age of 10 and 34, is guns. Far more than disease or accidents or 
automobile accidents, whatever it might be, it is handgun deaths. 
Handguns are just killing a whole generation of young blacks. 

Now, Mr. Chairman, you might say, well, that is our society, that 
is something that is happening in the rest of the world too. Well, 
the truth is it isn't happening elsewhere. What we are proposing 
in my legislation to ban all handguns isn't radical. Rather, what we 
have in this country is radical. 

Look at this chart, if you might — showing gun murders, and most 
of those are handgun murders. Look at Japan, 90 of them in the 
course of an entire year; England, 60; Australia, 76. Canada has 
as much of a wild west tradition as we do. Yet they have 186 
deaths by guns. And we in the United States have 14,300. The dif- 
ference stems from the fact that in those other countries you can- 
not go out and just get a handgun. You can't pack a 9-millimeter 
on your hip and wander around. That is the entire difference: the 
availability of guns in the United States of America. 

Mr. Chairman, I have proposed my Public Health and Safety Act, 
S. 892, which would ban the sale, possession, and manufacture of 
handguns and handgun ammunition, except in a few instances for 
collectors of antique handguns, the police, licensed security individ- 
uals, and the military, and handgun shooting clubs where the guns 
are kept under proper security. 

So there it is, Mr. Chairman. Unless we act, I believe that every 
single family in America is soon going to be touched — by handgun 
violence. That doesn't necessarily mean a son or a daughter, but a 
nephew or niece or an aunt or an uncle. Somewhere, in every sin- 
gle family in America, there will be a death as a result of handguns 
in the very near future because of the prevalence of these guns. We 
have just got to get rid of them. Is it going to be easy? No, but the 
way to go on a long journey is to take the first step, and that is 
to ban the possession, the manufacture and the importation of 

Senator Kohl. Thank you very much. Senator Chafee. That is 
great testimony. I want to ask you a question about your bill and 
its effect. If the bill were passed, what would happen the first or 
second or third time that somebody who was defenseless was mur- 
dered by someone who did not turn in their handgun? What would 
happen to public opinion? How would we proceed? 

Senator Chafee. It is occurring now. Not every household has a 
handgun at present. 

Senator Kohl. You have people who would turn in their guns? 


Senator Chafee. Yes. There would be a 6-inonth moratorium in 
which we would pay the greater of either $25 or the appraised 
value of the gun, if it was more than that, from the U.S. Treasury. 
At the end of that 6 month grace period, there would be a fme and 
a criminal offense if anybody had a gun, if that person did not fall 
in those exempted categories that I previously mentioned. 

Senator KOHL. What I am driving at is how would we handle 
pubHc opinion if and when someone had turned in his gun, had 
complied with the law, and then let us say it was somebody in a 
home and, lo and behold, someone with a gun entered the home 
and wound up maiming or killing the inhabitants. 

Senator Chafee. We may well have that situation, but what is 
the alternative? Are we going to continue in the situation we have 
now? The way to stop the handgun slaughter is to stop handguns, 
stop the prevalence of them. We are not going to get all 70 million 
handguns turned in in 6 months, but the way to do it is to start. 
That is the only way to curb this violence, this terrible slaughter 
that is taking place in our society. 

There is one last thing I might like to do, Mr. Chairman. I no- 
ticed that the NRA is going to testify later, and I just want every- 
body to fully understand the second amendment. The second 
amendment, as quoted by the NRA, is "The right of the people to 
keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." What they don't men- 
tion is the first part of the second amendment, which says, "A well- 
regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the 
right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." 
That has been universally interpreted by Federal courts to mean 
that the right of the people to keep and bear arms deals with those 
who are in a well-regulated militia. 

Frankly, I have no argument with the National Rifle Association 
because my bill doesn't deal with rifles. It deals solely with hand- 
guns. And I think it is important for everybody to understand what 
the second amendment does say and mean because it is not fully 
explained frequently. I receive lots of letters on this, saying, oh, 
you are monkeying around with the second amendment of the Con- 
stitution. But not at all. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you. 

Senator Cohen? . 

Senator CoHEN. Just a followup question on that point. Is it your 
interpretation, then, under the second amendment that only, let us 
say, the National Guard or perhaps police departments are con- 
stitutionally protected to bear arms? 

Senator Chafee. That is right, only under a well-regulated mili- 
tia. That is what the second amendment says, and this isn't John 
Chafee, legal expert, speaking. This is Warren Burger, Chief Jus- 
tice of the U.S. Supreme Court; Erwin Griswold, whom you know 
well, a solicitor general and former dean of the Harvard Law 
School, and they are joined by others. We hit all sides of the spec- 
trum. Former Judge Robert Bork says the same thing. 

Senator Cohen. Were those in court decisions or individual opin- 

Senator Chafee. These were opinions, but they are based on a 
court decision starting way back with the U.S. v. Miller Supreme 
Court decision in 1939, and it has been consistent ever since then. 


Senator Cohen. Even though your bill doesn't deal with rifles, it 
would be your opinion then, that no individual would have the 
"right" to own a shotgun or a rifle under the Constitution? 

Senator Chafee. I want to make sure that I am not tangling 
with shotguns and rifles. I am solely dealing with handguns. 

Senator COHEN. I understand. 

Senator Chafee. But you are right. That is right. An entity, a 
community, a state, a township — in fact I think in Madison, WI, 
you had a referendum recently on it — can ban all guns consistent 
with the second amendment. In most countries in the world they 
do ban handguns, except under certain licensed conditions. 

Senator Kohl. These countries that have handgun deaths of 100 
or less — they all have very, very restrictive laws? 

Senator Chafee. They certainly do. 

Senator KOHL. Are the comparable to what you are proposing? 

Senator Chafee. Yes. I mean, they are very, very strict. Mine 
would probably be a little more generous in that antique collectors, 
and security personnel and handgun shooting clubs would be per- 
mitted to have handguns if they followed certain regulations, and 
the guns were kept in a secure place, and so forth. I provide for 
that in the bill. In these other countries, you wouldn't see those ex- 

Senator Kohl. Well, thank you very much. 

Senator Chafee. Thank you, and I commend you for what you 
are doing and wish you the best of luck. Thank you. 

Senator Kohl. Too often, congressional hearings feature experts 
and academics, but no one who has experienced this issue first- 
hand. So that is why we are especially pleased to have as our first 
witness Jennifer Ramsay. Jennifer is 24 years old. She is a native 
of Clarksville, MD, and a recent graduate of the University of 
Maryland who works in the District. This very courageous young 
person is going to tell us about her personal experience with youth- 
related handgun violence. 

Jennifer, we are glad to have you with us. Would you like to 


Ms. Ramsay. Good morning. My name is Jennifer Ramsay. 
Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today about today's 
growing juvenile crime problem and how it affected me personally. 

Three years ago, I was just your average college student. I be- 
lieved that crime just happened to people involved in drugs, people 
outside of my world. I believe that is how most people think, that 
nothing can happen to them, that they will never become victims 
of criminal acts. My illusions were shortly shattered. 

My boyfriend, Carl Krogmann, was a manger of a Domino's Pizza 
store in Landover. We were leaving to go out of town one Saturday 
night and he decided to drop ofl" one last pizza on our way out. We 
pulled up to the house for delivery and he went to the door. He was 
almost instantly shot by a 16-year-old boy with a handgun, without 
his money even being taken. My friend, Carl, died within 2 min- 
utes in my arms before help could even get there. 

Within 48 hours, the two suspects were arrested. They were 
found because they had gone to school and bragged about the inci- 


dent. The boys were 16 and 18 years old. I spent 9 months in the 
court system testifying as the only witness to the event. The 16- 
year-old was a son of a 20-year veteran of the District of Columbia 
Police Force. He was convicted. He received life, plus 20 years, and 
was sent to the maximum security prison in Baltimore. But we re- 
cently found out that he has been transferred to Patuxent Place in 
Jessup, MD, for rehabilitation after only 3 years and is eligible for 
parole in 10 years. 

Losing a loved one is devastating. Having to watch a loved one 
die is something I will never forget. I would never want anyone to 
have to go through what I did, but learning to pick up your life 
afterwards is even harder. I dropped out of college for a year-and- 
a-half. I spent 9 months in court testifying. His family lost a part 
of them that they can never replace. 

The victims and survivors can go on living, but they never forget 
the pain and grief of losing a loved one. One becomes afraid to do 
simple things — go out in the dark, take a walk, be alone in your 
own house at night. I don't believe one should have to live like 
that, but in today's society it is impossible to do otherwise. Crime 
and violence can happen to any one of us at any time. 

I don't believe there is a perfect solution to the problem of our 
growing crime, especially among juveniles, but I do believe there 
are steps in the right direction that can make a difference. Gun 
control laws, especially the ones like the Brady bill, are effective 
in controlling the purchasers of weapons. Kids with guns are be- 
coming an increasingly larger problem. We should start with the 
minors in order to help the problems with the adults. 

Stricter punishments in the justice system would also help in 
controlling the violence. Especially in the juvenile system, crimi- 
nals rarely serve their full term — an example is my own case — and 
many become repeat offenders. Maybe if we help reform the grow- 
ing number of juvenile offenders, it could prevent more in the fu- 

I am not saying that any of these are perfect solutions, but I be- 
lieve that any laws that are passed are a start in the right direc- 

Senator Kohl. Well, thank you very much, Jennifer. We are 
pleased to have you with us here today. I would assume that you 
think it is very important that we do pass legislation like this to 
prevent minors from being able to possess handguns? 

Ms. Ramsay. Yes, I do. 

Senator KoHL. Did your experience cause you to lose any faith 
in our American legal system? 

Ms. Ramsay. Not necessarily lose faith, but I do believe that 
changes need to be made. 

Senator KOHL. All right. I thank you. 

Senator Cohen? 

Senator COHEN. The justice system in this country is often criti- 
cized for being insensitive to the victims of crime and being more 
preoccupied with protecting the rights of those accused of having 
committed the crimes. I would like to know what your experience 
was in the court system. After spending 9 months as the only wit- 
ness to come forward in this case do you feel that the courts or the 


prosecutors or the judges were sensitive to the victims; namely, 
yourself and the family of your loved one. 

Ms. Ramsay. I believe that the rights of victims in the court sys- 
tem have come a long way in recent years. I was treated very fair- 
ly, but the court systems do lean more toward the rights of the de- 

Senator Cohen. Let me ask you, did you learn anything about 
this young man who apparently did not come from a deprived envi- 
ronment? He was the son of a 20-year veteran on the District of 
Columbia Police Force. I assume that he led a middle-class life, and 
was not one who grew up in desperate poverty. What did you learn 
about him during the course of this trial in terms of his motiva- 

You testified about how the authorities learned who was respon- 
sible by the young men bragging about having shot your boyfriend, 
but what did you learn about this individual? 

Ms. Ramsay. I think the most shocking thing I learned about 
him all the time in court we spent was that he didn't show any re- 
morse for what he had done. He wouldn't own up to the fact that 
he had shot a — his claim was it was an accident, and therefore he 
should not be punished for pulling the trigger and killing an inno- 
cent person. Especially during his sentencing, which is done 6 
months after the trial, he showed absolutely no remorse in what 
he had done and believed it was all a mistake. 

Senator Cohen. What about the 18 year old? 

Ms. Ramsay. He showed a little bit more remorse and was there- 
fore given a lighter sentence. 

Senator COHEN. Do you think that this reduction in the sentence 
was brought about by the influence of his family? 

Ms. Ramsay. I would hope that the justice system wouldn't do 
something like that, you know, reduce someone's penalty, but I 
don't know. 

Senator Cohen. So you have no idea why there has been a reduc- 
tion that would him eligible for parole in about 10 years? 

Ms. Ramsay. No, I don't. 

Senator Cohen. I listened to what Senator Chafee said and what 
you have said here, and it reminded me of my favorite songs by 
Richard Harris, "The Yard Went on Forever." Part of the lyrics he 
sings is "is everybody safe, has everybody got a place to hide?" The 
answer is no. None of us are safe. None of us have a place to hide 
as long as this type of violence continues to sweep this country. 

Thank you for your testimony. It has been very impressive. 

Ms. Ramsay. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much, Ms. Ramsay. Our next 
panel is composed of experts in three fields — education, health 
care, and law enforcement. Janie Hatton is the principal at Mil- 
waukee Tech High School, and she was recently recognized as the 
National Principal of the Year. Janie Hatton has been an educator 
for more than 2 decades, and all of us in Milwaukee are really 
proud of Janie Hatton. 

Dr. Alex Haller is a professor of pediatric surgery at the Johns 
Hopkins Children's Center in Baltimore, and the Director of the 
Maryland Pediatric Trauma Center. He has more than 30 years of 
experience as a pediatric surgeon. 


Dewey Stokes, a frequent visitor to this committee, is the Na- 
tional President of the Fraternal Order of Police, which has nearly 
250,000 members. He has been a policeman and a law enforcement 
official for more than 20 years. So we are happy to have you here, 
Mr. Stokes. 

We are happy to have all three of you. Ms. Hatton, would you 
like to speak? 



Ms. Hatton. Senator Kohl, I compliment you on having the in- 
tegrity, tenacity, the will and the foresight, and most certainly the 
bottom-line guts to introduce this type of proposal to support Amer- 
ica's youth or youth who visit this country. 

We in schools are under siege. As a principal, as a parent, and 
as an American citizen of 43 years, I support what you are doing 
and will do my utmost to help articulate it and to help promote it 
and advance it until it becomes a law. Senator Cohen, your com- 
ments and the song that you recalled helped me to recall a song 
about Frankie and Johnny. 

Snap, crackle and pop. This is not cereal anymore; this is gunfire 
in our schools, in our athletic events, on premises, on buses as our 
children are conveyed from one neighborhood to another, at their 
fun activities. Most kids are wonderful people. Some children are 

I want to share with you some bad vibes I have had in the last 
several years, but before doing that, I bring you greetings from Mil- 
waukee Trade and Technical High School, a school that is 83 years 
old and most recently recognized as a U.S. School of Excellence 
from the Office of Education. 

In growing up in Hot Springs, AR, I never saw a gun in my 
home. I am from a very impoverished background. That is no ex- 
cuse to say one has to resort to violence. My most violent act prob- 
ably has been as a mother when I say no to certain things. 

I dedicate my remarks to young people who have fallen by gun- 
fire and not in any war or because they were involved in any mili- 
tia. I respect the Constitution of this country. I have hopes one day 
that it will be applicable to all of us in the truest sense. I am not 
a member of the militia. I don't think most of us ever will be, and 
there are certain apparatus that should be maintained by people 
who purport to be in the militia and/or our agencies of governance 
for us for our own safety. 

I remember K.K., Chris, Sean, Calvin, Greg, Rodney, better 
known as 5,000, in the streets. There is a code of caring that is 
happening in the street, and it is a proliferation of gang activity 
and nongang activity. Carrying a gun or a handgun or having ac- 


cess to one is a point of honor among many young people, male and 

I looked as Ms. Ramsay spoke, a most plausible witness in the 
eyes of most Americans, a white female. I am an African-American 
female. I, too, am plausible. My record speaks for itself. I look at 
the violence; it knows no discriminatory barriers demographically, 
socioeconomic, or in interest — athletic, academia, or in at-risk cat- 

I have been a principal of this particular school for 2 years, a 
principal at Alexander Hamilton High School for 5 years. I was a 
community superintendent for 2 when I realized my passion for 
education belonged in a school. I need children in my life imme- 
diately around me. 

I have been a French teacher and a counselor. Never before have 
I been so concerned that when I leave my driveway, I pray every 
morning and I read the 23rd psalm as my guiding shield for my 
children, my staff, myself, and my child. We are not talking about 
private, public, parochial, or home training in education. Again, no 
barriers are known. 

We must keep kids away from guns, and keep guns away from 
kids, and ammunition a far distance. In my drawer at Milwaukee 
Tech, commonly known by many Americans and people in this 
world as Boys Tech, I have some ammunition that I just found and 
one of the kids brought to me off the grounds. We are nestled in 
an industrial-base community, but it is old and underutilized in its 
industrial sense. It is basically home to approximately 30,000 His- 
panic families and some white families. My kids come from all over 
Milwaukee and some suburban spots. 

I speak as the principal of Milwaukee Tech, but while the na- 
tional principal of the Year for the first time, and sponsored by the 
National Association of Secondary School Principals and Metropoli- 
tan Life Insurance Company, I read a lot. I have friends all over 
the country. We talk the same talk. 

June 1992, close to the end of the school year, approximately 100 
of my kids were standing on Third and National waiting for their 
bus to pick them up and take them north, south, or west. Shots 
rang out in a bank parking lot. My kids know that we are out 
there. When I say "we," I am referring to my three security people, 
my assistant principals, and some teachers who volunteer their 
time, and many parents. There is also an elementary school two 
blocks away from our front door. 

The shots that rang out came from not a car, but gang members 
standing on the premises shooting randomly at my kids, and they 
struck someone, a student who was on her way home with a friend. 
She did not know these people, they did not Imow her. She was in- 
jured, but so were some other people. Thank God, she didn't die, 
but are we counting deaths or are we counting incidents? I think 
we should top counting by enacting some policies and laws that 
will make a difference, a distinct difference. 

Arrests were made. However, there were immediate releases of 
these people because the witnesses had one of the greatest human 
elements contained within them — fear. They would not testify, and 
that is a truth in the community. As the kids say in the hood, you 
don't talk if you want to walk. 


Now, many of you live in the comfort of your home, but it could 
be you the next time. It was stated earlier, it is someone you know 
or you know remotely. But for me, I love all kids, I love all people, 
but when I find that someone has been maimed or killed, it is a 
different set of circumstances. 

I want to talk about December 19 at Milwaukee Tech High 
School on the second floor, by room 261. Our day ends for my kids 
at 2:43 p.m. At approximately 2:42 p.m., the teacher stood by the 
door preparing for the kids to exit. Like most schools, kids are rar- 
ing to go; they don't wait for the bell to ring and to say you are 
dismissed. Kids are geared up to say at the end of the day, I am 
out of here. 

Well, as they were getting ready to leave this reading classroom, 
simultaneous to this preparation for exist, there was an outsider 
who entered our doors. We have 69 doors you can enter. I don't 
have money to staff every door to keep people out. You cannot lock 
all doors. Fire codes exist, so there are some constraints. 

One of my students was in the hallway conducting some business 
with a pass. If you don't have a pass in the hallway, you will prob- 
ably be stopped by someone. This outsider confronted my student 
and he said, I will shoot you, and he used a verbatim that I won't 
use in these halls, but he swore at him. 

The teacher heard this, looked, and she saw the gun. Now, the 
bell is ringing because a minute has passed. It is dismissal time; 
the hall is crowded with kids. I have the largest school in Milwau- 
kee public schools, 1,851 students and 173 adults. 

In this particular hallway, every kid takes drafting. There, you 
will have on any floor approximately 300, 400 kids in this corridor. 
As this is happening, the shot rings out. The kids hear it and they 
run like wild fire. They come rumbling down, many of them to the 
office. They stop at several spots along the way to tell teachers, let 
me in, let me in. Teachers step out to keep the kids in. Teachers 
are risking their lives. 

By the time it gets to my door, many kids, because they are im- 
mune to these shots — it is part of what is happening in America. 
It didn't happen to me, it is not business, I am going on to the bus 
stop. Kids are leaving. One girl is walking with her friend, who 
happened to have been in the hallway. 

Particularly among young teenagers today, the athletic tennis 
shoe is very important, right? No one wants a dirty tennis shoe, 
and that is with all kids. If you see a little, small nick or a mark 
on a shoe, they don't want it because it is messed up. You and I 
think it is a good shoe still. 

This girl happened to notice her friend. She said, oh, you have 
a hole in your shoe, a nick, not even measurable, except in drafting 
terms. She said, oh, dang. They walk to the bus stop, which is 
three blocks from school. As the young lady gets on the bus and 
takes her seat, sits in the back with the kids — and they are gun- 
ning each other, and they use that now as a word to say and plan 

She said, my foot is hurting, and she complained because the 
pain was excruciating. Her friend ignored her. She said, my foot is 
hurting, and one kid said, I bet you got shot. She said, no. By the 
time she had ridden the bus five miles to her neighborhood, and 


the friend who had noticed the nick in the shoe was her neighbor 
was well, she got to the door of her mother's house and fell in and 
said, I have been shot. Her mother called 911 for an emergency res- 
cue squad to come and get her. 

Now, this is about close to 4:00. I am still at my desk. I get a 
phone call from the neighbor of the child who saw the nick by say- 
ing, Ms. Hatton, one of the students was shot at school, when I say, 
no, you are wrong, there was no one who was injured. That is an 
example of what is happening. This kid had been shot and not 
aware of it. 

What it does to a principal and teachers — the next day, I have 
to make sure I am at school probably by 6:00 a.m., and prepare a 
statement for my staff and get them together, and particularly the 
group of teachers who rally to support anything immediately. And 
we forget about education because we then think in terms of will 
the person who did the shooting — can we identify him, because the 
police have been involved already, but the kids who know — the pat- 
tern has been set. They will either call you or write notes to get 
it to you. 

My day starts being an FBI agent. I have to do inquiry, inves- 
tigation, and looking at how we can get the kids comfortable be- 
cause those kids who return to school have questions and shaki- 
ness in them. A lot of kids will not return. Their parents, rightfully 
so, wonder what has happened because the papers will have it, and 
the newspapers report urban incidents more so because the news- 
papers are stationed in urban areas. 

I say this succinctly to say the day begins with having to write 
a note to teachers, meet with all staff who will deal with this issue. 
I have to also have classroom teachers lock their doors, which is 
very uncommon in our schools. And, second, I have to talk to my 
kids, and you can't play games and tell little fancy stories. These 
are young people who know what is going on. We then must deal 
with an aftermath. Our moneys in our schools are being spent on 
mourning, crisis response time, and having security scans checked. 

We must posture ourselves to make a difference. Our platform 
banks on economic constraints and imposition on instructional op- 
portunities. First and foremost, for any school to be safe, there are 
variables and caveats of what is called excellent schools, and that 
is safety. Safety must be the number one order of any organization. 

Thank you. 

[Ms. Hatton submitted the following:] 

Prepared Statement of Janie R. Hill Hatton 

Greetings, from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, specifically, Milwaukee Trade and Tech- 
nical High School, a recently recognized U.S. Office of Education Exemplary School. 
I am Janie Hatton, a principal in a Milwaukee, Wisconsin Public School with 21 
years of educational experience. I have been a principal for seven years and a com- 
munity superintendent for two. Even though my title is principal, I am always first 
and foremost, a teacher. I appreciate this opportunity to address you and to tell you 
of my reasons for supporting the bill before you. I am not happy to recant the num- 
ber of gun related incidents that I know of in my school district or across the coun- 
try. Many gun related incidents have been thrust upon me for my management. 
Principals across America have the same malady. We, as educators are under seize. 

We are proud to laud The Honorable Senator Kohl, who introduced the bill that 
is the subject of today's hearing. He is enabling some child to reclaim their right 
to life. Today, you, the members of this body are compelled to face the issue and 
structure a cohesive response from a dual perspective. 


Keep Kids Away From Guns 
Keep Guns Away From Kids 

I would like to share a few of the incidents that 1 have had to face during my 
principalship. In all that 1 do, 1 must recent those experiences that advanced me 
to this august body of elected officials. I will chronicle the following remembrances: 

June, 1992, at the close of school and one block away from school on the park- 
ing lot of a bank, four gun shots rang out and one injured an Innocent by- 
stander who is a student in our school. Arrests were made and immediate re- 
leases were granted because witnesses refused to testify, due to one of the 
strongest human emotions, fear. This incident impacted approximately 85-100 
youth who were either at the bus stop or enroute to their homes. 

December 11, 1992, hear the end of the school day, an intruder entered our 
school and confronted one student who was in the corridor conducting school 
business. The two had an unpleasant exchange. Stimultaneous to my kids exits 
from their classes, this intruder fired the gun in the hallway and to our knowl- 
edge (school officials, teachers), no one was injured. Assessments were made, 
student witnesses comforted and questioned by staff and police. We said what 
a tragedy to an otherwise wonderful day. At approximately 5:00 p.m., I received 
a call at my desk from one of my parents who told me that one of the students 
had been shot in the left toe and was in the hospital. I indicated to her that 
that was not the case. She emphatically told me that my student, a 14 year old 
Freshman had been informed that her shoe had a nick (small mark) on it. The 
student boarded the bus and began to experience excrutiating pain in her foot. 
A friend surmised that she (the student in pain) had indeed been shot. 

Four Milwaukee youth were slain December 19, 1992 by a ring of young drug 
runners. The kids' death resembled "TheSt. Valentine's Day Massacre." 

January 24, 1993, a senior student went to a cafe at approximately 1:30 a.m. 
In the scnool community and was allegedly disrespected by members of an op- 
posing gang after being slapped twice. The senior student left the cafe and 
made a telephone call to some of his friends. These friends arrived and gunshots 
were fired in the restaurant. Two people are killed (an opposing gang member 
and a chauffeur) and one was injured because of the shooting. The senior stu- 
dent called me and informed me that he was underground and would not return 
to school. He asked that I communicate this to mmtiple others for their safety. 
Deplo5rment of those youth to other school sites or states (parent choices) was 
done immediately. 

Thursday, May 27, 1993 one of my students while enroute home at approxi- 
mately 11:00 p.m. witnessed an attack on a businessmen enroute to his home 
after a meeting. The man was stopped his car for a red light. Meanwhile, three 
youths had just left a movie that had been shown at a shopping mall and felt 
the urge to emulate what was proclaimed to be the movies theme, JACKING. 
They believed that they, too, should "jack" someone. It had to be premeditated 
because one youth had a gun on his person while at the movie; another youth 
went to a home to purchase a weapon, but was not able to make the trans- 
action. This information was printed in our local newspaper. 

The data from Milwaukee Public Schools Office of School Safety is provided for 
your information. This data references the number of guns confiscated that also 
warranted expulsion from Milwaukee Public School. 



Milwaukee Public Scht3ols 
RErE=?ENC£: Division of Student Servicas 

The following Infcrmation Is provided to you for your review as it relates to the 
19S2-1993 school year. Cited below are ttie numbers of preliminary expulsion 
hearings and actual oxpulsions processed in the Milwaukee Public Schools for 
student found to be In possesion of guns In cur schools or on schcci property. 



Actual &;pul3fon8 


A raferanc« was made to ttis types of weapons retreivsd by the Milwaukee 
Prstic% Deparlnient that support the numbers referencecJ aPove. 

pailet guns, .25 calibre, .22 calibre, JJ2 calibre, .38 calibre 



SKPr 1989 TBgU FSB. 1990 

3£FT. 1990 THRU FEB. 1991 

S22T. 1991 THRU FEB. 1992 







.38 iUanXTJV 

.32 aAidxrjH 

.22 HAWJG3M 

.22 HAinJCyN » 


.32 iOTCMATIC * " 

.32 HAHDGUH » 

.36 !lArtDGUM 

.25 HAiOTJH • 


.25' HAWEGJm 












.25 AinCMATIC 



.23 HAifEGUH 

.38 JLUfUGlffl 



.22 SZM-AimJ 

















3a GUH '^ 



.357 MAGNUM^- 






.38 DERSI«G£X 









Senator KOHL. Thank you very much, Ms. Hatton. 

Mr. Stokes, could you limit your testimony to 5 minutes? 


Mr. Stokes. Sure, Senator, and I will try and summarize. But, 
first, I brought a couple of extra books with me to give to you and 
your cochair, Senator Cohen, and whoever else on your committee 
you deem appropriate. It is a summary of some additional informa- 
tion so that we do not center just on one issue today, and if you 
would take those books. 

As we get into our testimony today, I would like to offer some 
suggestions, I think, as we go through today. First of all, thank you 
for inviting the National Fraternal Order of Police and I, as na- 
tional president, to testify on this issue, an important piece of pro- 
posed legislation. 

I just finished some in-service training and was confined with 
some of our officers throughout my county for a day or so yester- 
day, and I can tell you, as a general rule, they support the position 
and the statements that I am about to give. 

In general, we know, the line officers that are working the 
streets, that our juvenile criminals are definitely getting bolder, 
more aggressive, and they have the lethal fire power to back up 
those statements that the principal here alluded to. 

The surge of violence and the killing power is getting to be car- 
ried out regularly. The days of the fist fight and the old zip guns 
are gone. There are sophisticated weapons and the violence is dis- 
proportionately among the youth. We see a desperate increase in 
the youth today taking lives from the age of 13, and in New York 
recently, even as low as 7 years old, carrying guns for protection 
and using those weapons. 

One thing that we talked about is in the homes, in the schools — 
and I also said as vice president of my Boys and Girls Clubs of 
America — and I get an opportunity to deal with our children in the 
inner cities, single-parent families, and talk about some of the 
problems that we have there. So the problems are prevalent, and 
they are prevalent not just in urban, but in suburban. 

In the modern-day society, the problems that we encounter are 
the movies, the song lyrics, and the virtual toughness about vio- 
lence. As an example of that, in this booklet you will see that I 
quoted the rap song from Ice T. We recently protested the advocat- 
ing of their song and the vulgarity of the song in bringing about 
the death. 

I also ran across in the Milwaukee Journal four teens implicated 
in the slaying of a Greendale, WI, man. They went to see the movie 
"Menace II Society." In "Menace II Society," the friends and three 
others were inspired by the movie and they got all fired up. So 
when they went to the street, one of the boys that went to the 
movie carried a .25-caliber handgun with him, and from the movie 
they were all hyped up. They planned to gun down someone to 
carry out the objectives of that movie. They got the idea from the 
idea and they gunned down a 50-year-old businessman on the 
street. That is contained in this booklet. 

So it is not just an issue of society passing laws. It is an issue 
about society's responsibility to our youth. What we need is type 


of legislation that is uniform throughout the country. There is a 
lack of continuity of laws, which you will see in the exhibits that 
I have placed in the booklet. 

The availability of weapons is there. How do we deal with those 
70 million weapons? Well, here is one way. We ought to be advocat- 
ing trigger locks for these guns and do what Mosburgh does, per- 
haps, where they distribute this type of lock with each of their ri- 
fles that they sell. Maybe we ought to be talking to manufacturers 
about doing that. I honestly believe that manufacturers would take 
those steps because manufacturers don't want to see their weapons 
illegally or misused either. 

These are the types of boxes that the Fraternal Order of Police — 
and here in the District, I know that our lodge gave these lock 
boxes out to each of our members in this District. This box will 
hold a weapon in the home, and when you lock it, you lock it and 
just merely switch the lock and it locks the gun up safely. We try 
to get every police officer in the country to use these for their serv- 
ice weapon or their off-duty weapon or their or their backup weap- 

The violence in America must stop. The youths that are being 
killed, the availability of these weapons is leaving us not only with, 
as the principal alluded to, death, but what about those that are 
wounded? I have sat with the American Pediatrics Association on 
this. The wounding of those children, the rehabilitation of the chil- 
dren, and the impact it has on the family — I think we have to look 
at the victims of crime. When you see a young child sentenced 
today, the gangs are using the younger children to use them as hit 
persons in these gangs because they know it is cheaper to defend 
those individuals. They are not going to go to prison and stay in 

In most States, if they are convicted before they are 21 as a juve- 
nile, they can only remain in prison until they are 21 and then 
they are released, regardless of the crime. So we have got to look 
at how to prevent these children from getting the weapons, how to 
immobilize these weapons when they are in the home, because you, 
as a father, as an uncle, as a grandparent, don't want to see your 
child or a neighborhood child enter your home and use a weapon 
that they find in that home to injure themselves, to kill a neighbor, 
or to use that gun improperly in a robbery or a murder such as oc- 
curred here in Wisconsin. 

These issues are near and dear to law enforcement, and we 
would like to see some information disseminated in gun education, 
in courses that we have like we have in Ohio, and many, many 
other States — I believe 47 out of 50 — now have mandatory hunting 
courses to teach children about firearms. You have to have a super- 
vised firearm and a parent or a guardian with you when you go out 
into the field to hunt, and you must pass a supervised course. 

So I will leave myself open to questions so I don't run over your 
time. But I am trying to summarize my statement and the book, 
and I believe the statement will speak for itself and I would like 
to enter the book as additional proof. 

[Mr. Stokes submitted the following:] 


Prepared Statement of Dewey R. Stokes 

Good morning Mr. Chairman and members of this distinguished subcommittee. It 
is always an honor to have the opportunity to appear before you on legislation and 
issues which are important to the law enforcement community. 

My name is Dewey Stokes. I am the national president of the Fraternal Order 
of Police, the largest organization of rank-and- file law enforcement professionals in 
the United States. Today, I appear on behalf of our 248,000 members located in 45 
states to speak about the growing problem of juvenile violence, the proliferation of 
firearms, and the relationship between these two d3mamics. 

I understand that you will hear testimony this morning from a number of experts 
in their respective fields of expertise who will be able to cite an array of statistics 
about juvenile violence and the widespread availability of firearms. I will let these 
individuals provide the statistical underpinning for the problem that is the focus of 
these hearings. What I will share with you are some of the general perceptions held 
by my members; observations made by cops who are on the streets daily and who 
face the reaUty of what we will talk about this morning in the abstract. 

As a general rule, it is the belief of most line officers that today's juvenile criminal 
population is getting bolder, more aggressive, and more lethal in terms of the fire- 
power now avEiilable to them. In addition to this observation, most officers working 
the streets will tell you that there appears to be a virtual explosion over the last 
several years of violent crime being committed by juveniles against each other and 
against society at-large. With this siirge in violent crime has been a corresponding 
increase in the types and "killing power" of the firearms that these kids now regu- 
larly carry with them. 

Beyond the fact that violent crime is being committed more and more by kids is 
the reality that their victims are also increasingly younger as well. Furthermore, 
the witnesses to these crimes of violence are disproportionately young themselves. 
The cumulative impact that this circle of terror has on our youth is still unknown, 
but certainly no one can doubt that it is and will be pervasive for some time to 

The anecdotal evidence from our officers appear to be substantiated by a recent 
(1991) U.S. Department of Justice study on crime in America. In that study, it was 
found that of all individuals arrested for murder nationwide, slightly over 30 per- 
cent were under the age of 21. Of that 30 percent grouping, at least half were under 
the age of 18. 

What police on the streets are seeing is nothing short of a national epidemic of 
violence involving firearms perpetrated bv kids, against kids, and in front of kids. 
What is especially tragic is that this collection of perpetrators, victims, and wit- 
nesses are all increasingly younger in age — no longer are we talking strictly about 
the 16 to 21 year old age bracket. Our officers report that they are dealing with 
children in middle schools or just barely into high school. 

In a modern day society where popular movies and song lyrics extol the virtues 
of proving your "toughness" through violence or, in some instances, the killing of 
police officers, is there really any wonder that these young adults are doing any- 
thing but reflecting the behavior they see paraded before them under the guise of 

This unfortunate trend is, as might be expected, bringing the classrooms of Amer- 
ica into this circle of terror as well. The U.S. Department of Justice recently esti- 
mated that approximately 100,000 students carry firearms, usually handguns, into 
our schools each day. Consider the following: 

In some schools in Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Oakland, school administra- 
tors have created something called 'Tellow Code Alerts." These alerts are simi- 
lar to air raid drills of the early 1960's when, upon some prearranged signal, 
students will quickly take a prone position on the floor of their classroom with 
their hands over their head — the better to avoid ricocheting bullets from ongo- 
ing nearby gun battles. 

In one other school in California, after a teacher was nearly killed from a 
stray bullet, a high wall was erected between the school and a housing project 
immediately adjacent so that the gunfights next door to the school would no 
longer pose a direct threat to students or faculty while in the classroom at- 
tempting to learn. 

We should not make the mistake in thinking that this problem is limited to 
schools in disadvantaged or urban neighborhoods — guns are a fact of life for stu- 
dents in affluent communities like nearby Langley High School in McLean, Virginia 
or in Saratoga Springs, New York. Finally, our officers report that the epidemic of 


firearms in schools is not confined to just high schools — weapons, even of a sophisti- 
cated nature, are being found in middle and elementary schools across this Nation. 

The response of school administrators and law enforcement agencies at the local 
level have been predictable — more security patrol personnel, stricter access controls; 
yes, even metal detectors at school entrances — but certainly not sufficient to provide 
a safe environment in which our children can learn. This ' armed camp" atmosphere 
is hardly the most conducive setting in which to educate our children. The scope 
and nature of the problem presented by the proliferation of firearms in our schools 
is apparent and real. What are the causes of this development and, more impor- 
tantly, what are some of the solutions? 

There is no doubt but that the causes of this set of problems are multifaceted in 
nature. Factors such as poverty, a breakdown of the traditional family structure in 
poor and wealthy homes alike, an increasing view of violence as a way to address 
problems or gain respect, a lessening of the value of another's life, and a criminal 
justice system that is anything but just: all contribute to the moral decay of our 
society and the legacy that we pass on to our children. 

On a more practical level and speaking solely from a law enforcement perspective, 
the conftising and contradictorr array of state (and sometimes local) laws governing 
the open possession of a handgun by a minor aggravates the present situation by 
preventing officers from taking all steps possible to safeguard society at-large. More- 
over, the Federal statute on point effectively permits the sale or transfer of a fire- 
arm to a minor by someone who is not a federally licensed dealer, thus further com- 
plicating the job of a police officer. 

It is my understanding, Mr. Chairman, that you will be introducing needed legis- 
lation on this point which would prohibit the possession of a handgun or ammuni- 
tion by, or the private transfer of a handgun or ammunition to, a juvenile. The FOP 
shares your concerns and commends you and this subcommittee for both recognizing 
the problem and seeking a solution. The FOP pledges to work with you and your 
colleagues in crafting a final legislative product that resolves this issue in a manner 
acceptable to all sides. 

Beyond a Federal and perhaps state legislative response to this problem are a 
range of other options which should be utilized: 

1. Diligent adult supervision at all times when a firearm is being used by a 

2. Increased education initiatives for firearms handling and safety pre- 
cautions targeted toward minors; 

3. Mandatory hunting safety programs for minors; 

4. The fostering of more awareness as to the availability of gun lock boxes 
and triggerlocks to immobilize firearms when not in use (perhaps gun manufac- 
turers could be prevailed upon to include information on these devices when 
their products are packaged for sale instead of just inserting membership appli- 
cations for the National Rifle Association). 

5. Finally, the recognition by adults who keep firearms at home that their 
children, their grandchildren, and their friends are at potential risk unless seri- 
ous thought and attention is given to placing these objects out of harm's way. 

Chairman Kohl, on behalf of the FOP, I again applaud you and this subcommittee 
for holding this hearing and elevating the level of awareness about this serious 
issue. Your leadership and initiative this morning can perhaps make a difference 
and save both the life of a child as well as that of an officer. 

Thank you very much for your time and I would be pleased to answer any ques- 
tions which you or the subcommittee may have. 


As Introduced 1.4 

120th General Assembly 1-6 

Regular Session H. B. No. 356 1.7 

1993-1994 1-8 




A BILL 1.13 

To enact sections 2923.211 and 2923.212 of the 1.15 

Revised Code to prohibit storing or leaving a 1.16 

loaded firearm so that a child under 16 years of 1.17 

age obtains possession of it, to require firearm 1.19 

dealers to post and distribute notices of the 1.20 

prohibition, to require the Department of 1.21 

Education to develop a firearm safety course for 1.22 

schools, and to require the Department of 1.23 

Taxation to recommend to the Department of 1.24 

Education a plan for an increased tax on firearms 1.25 

to provide funds to pay for the course. 1.26 

Section 1. That sections 2923.211 and 2923.212 of the 1.31 
Revised Code be enacted to read as follows: 1.32 
































Section 2. The Department of Education shall develop a 4.7 

proposed course of study covering firearms safety for us; in all 4.8 

public elementary and secondary schools in this stite. The 4.9 

Department of Taxation shall recommend to the Department of 4.10 

Education a plan for an increased tax on firearms tc provide 4.11 

funds to cover the cost of the course. No later than ninety days 4.13 

after the effective date of this act, the Department of EJucation 4.14 

shall submit to both houses of the General Assembly the proposed 4.16 

course of study and proposed legislation for increasing the tax 4.17 

on firearms and for implementing the course of study in all 4.18 

public elementary and secondary schools in this state. 4.19 

75-909 0-94-2 



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Chad safely gun bill 
puts onus on parents 




State Rep. Jane Campbell wants 
parents to keep guns away from their 
children, and she hopes a proposed 
law she recently introduced will 
prompt parents to store loaded guns 
m a place inaccessible to children. 

If they don t, mom and dad would 
be responsible under Campbell's leg- 
islation if their child gets hold of 

their gun. 

At a City Hail press conference 
vesterdav. Campbell. D-ll. of Cleve- 
land, said her -child safety bill" 
would subject parents to jaii time 
and fines for not keeping loaded fire- 
arms away from children under the 
age of 16. 

"We cannot protect our children 
compietelv from mteraction with 
guns, " Campbell said. "(But) if you 
own a gun. you have to be responsi- 
ble for it." 

In addition to penalties for negli- 
gent parents. Campbell wants the 
state education department to re- 
quire schools to teach gun safety and 
require gun dealers to post notices 
im'orming parents of theu: responsi- 

The legislation to create the cnme 
of "negligent storage of a loaded fire- 
arm " mirrors that approved in seven 
other states and recently passed by 
Cleveland City Council. 

City Prosecutor Barbara J. Dan- 

forth said uvo people have been pros- 
ecuted under Cleveland's law. She 
said although some people have ex- 
pressed disappointment with the low 
number of prosecutions under that 
citv ordinance, she's pleased. 

■"•I would like to think that the 
cases that we don't see are the ones 
that are important." she said. "The 
parents, the family members who in 
fact locked up guns, who put trigger 
locks on guns, those are the cases 
that I don't see. And if that is hap- 
pening, which I'm sure it has. that is 
how this law is being effective." 

Council President Jay Westbrook. 
D-18. believes this law should al- 
ready be on the books in Ohio. He's 
seen too much blood spilled m Geve- 
land. particularly that of youths. 

Last Christmas. Westbrook and 
other city officials gathered in the ro- 
tunda of City Hail to place about uvo 
dozen wooden crosses under an un- 
decorated pine tree. Each cross rep- 
resented a child who died in Cleve- 
land from gunfire. 

"We in this community don't want 
to be in a position where we're at- 
tending funerals and .memorials." 
Westbrook said. "Adults have a re- 
sponsibility to the children. " 

Campbell hopes to have the pro- 
posal approved by the end of this leg- 
islative session. She said she intro- 
duced a similar measure two years 
ago that died in committee alter the 
National Rifle Assoaation lobbied 
against it. 



2 movies in^ired violence, report says 



Four teens implicated in the slay- 
ing of a Greendale, Wis., man "got 
ideas" from two movies about win- 
ning power and respect through vio- 
lence, delinquency petitions indicate. 

The youths saw one of the fillns — 
"Menace II Society" — hours before 
Roger Buchholz, 50, was gunned 
down last week, the petitions say. 

Immediately after the slaying, the 
boys quoted lines from the other 
movie, "Juice," according to the f)eti- 
tions. That movie was shown in Mil- 
waukee in January 1992. 

The 17-year-old owner of the gun 
used in the slaying told police that 
after seeing "Menace II ScJciety," "he 
and the friends he was with were in- 
spired by the movie and that he got 
fired up and got ideas from it" 'nie 
movie has been described as a vio- 
lent, bleak portrayal of young black 
males in South Central Los Angeles. 

The 17-year-oId who police think 
fired the shots was accused in the pe- 
tition of first-degree intentional hom- 
icide, attempted armed robbery and 
possessing a dangerous weapon. The 
17-year-old gun owner was accused 
of felony murder Two other youths 
— boys 14 and 15 — were accused of 
possessing a dangerous weapon. 

The 15-year-old told police "that 
on the bus ride home from the 
movie, they were all hyped up from 
the action in the movie" ana con- 
cocted a plan to rob someone at gun- 
point One of the boys had brought a 
.25-caliber handgun lo the movie 

The four discussed robbing a cab- 
driver, then saw Buchholz stopped at 
a traffic light Buchholz, a vice presi- 
dent for Success Business Industries 
here, had attended a business meet- 
ing downtown earlier in the evening. 

According to two of the youths, the 
gunman walked up to the car and 
spoke to Buchholz. The car accele- 
rated and went through a red light, 
and the youth fired four shots. The 
youth accused of being the gunman 
admits firing twice but says he 
dropped the gun and heard two more 
shot"; as he was runnmg. 

The 15-year-old told police that af- 
ter Buchholz was killed, the gun 
owner said to the gunman, "You got 
Ihe juice," a phrase from the movie 
"Juice" that refers to killing people. 

The boy said the gunman replied, 
"I guess 1 should get my stripes for 
this " 




The W.vsHi^CTn.N Post 

Ti.'ESDAY. March i2. I9Q 

Gun Pipeline: From Ohio 
To Streets of Philadelphia 

Case Said to Point Up Gaps in Firearms Laws 

By Michael Isikoff 

W)ishumon Po« Suif Wnter 

Floyd's gun-buying spree began 
slowly last Apni. when the former 
Purdue University linebacker began 
showing up at the Loading Bench 
spons store in Canton, Ohio, to 
check out the semiautomatics. 

"At first, maybe he'd come in 
once a month and buy two or three 
[handguns] at a time," recalled 
store manager Tony Giovanneili. 
"Then he'd start calling up, saymg, 
'How many of these do you have? 
How many can you get?'. . . . And 
he'd come in and wipe out what I 
had in stock. You're talking 20 to 
30 guns at a time. ... He never did 
give a reason." 

The reason was cr/stal clear in 

the drug-infested neighborhood 
where Floyd lived in northeast Phil- 
adelphia. Over the past year, fed- 
eral law enforcement officials said. 
Floyd became the city's most pro- 
lific gun trafficker, transponing 
carloads of high-powered semiau- 
tomatic handguns — purchased over 
the counter frnm !spnrts stores in 
Ohio — and peadling them here to 
crack dealers and drug gangs. 

Floyd's alleged activities, out- 
lined in two federal indictments and 
court papers filed last week, pro- 
vide a window into the flourishing 
interstate gun market and its role m 
fueling the surge of gun-related vi- 
olence that afflicts many U.S. cities. 

As Congress prepares for a new 
debate on cnme and gun control, 
the case also illustrates the impu- 

See GUNS. A4. CoL 1 

President couches iamdiar crime package in patrwUc theme. Pu^e .14 


44 atsaiv. M.mcii 1 2. [')')\ 

TiiF. Vl'.uiii.\cTO.i Post 

One Man's Alleged Handgun Pipeline: 
From Ohio to Streets of Philadelphia 


iiiiv wt'Ji which gun trafficlcen ex- 
:iluit loopholes in federal reguia- 
::'jns :)nd weak, inconsistent state 
.:un laws to import weapons into the 
niier cities, .tccording to offictab 

I'loyd. who U.S. attorney Michael 
M. nai'tson last week called 'the 
:iumber one nun supplier* to Phil* 
.■rielphia .street gan^. was arrested 
'.1st May nn a minor weapons pos- 
-fsston charse and released on bail. 

Ilut (or three more months he 
'wtmued to stock up on semiauto- 
matic weapons, buying at least 86 
lirearms m Ohio — a state that re- 
• luires neither wailing periods nor 
h.icki|round checks (or handgun 
nurcha.scrs. according to a (ederal 
indictment and court papers. 

Floyd. 34. was indicted on federal 
(irearms charges last August in 
Ohio. But he was released on bail 
and continued to sell weapo ns from 
his home here, according to federal 
igents. On Feb. 28. he was re- 
irrested by (ederal agents and 
charged in a new 19-count indict- 
ment with transferring weapons 
.icross state lines and knowingly 
selling them to drug dealers. 

■When we .irrested him. there 
was a crowd of people standing 
.iround his house ... and they all 
.ipplauded.' said Josephine S. Kauf- 
man, chief of the Bureau of Alcohol. 
Tobacco and Firearms' Project Ac- 
hilles, set up to target we a po ns vio- 
lators. 'Most people in the neigh- 
borhood knew what was going on, 
but they were scared." 

Mark Creenberg. Floyd's bwyer, 
»id last week his client has pleaded 
not guilty to the charges aitd that 
rhe itovemment has produced no 
.■vidence Kkiyd sold guns to drug 
dealers. He said Floyd, being held 
on pretrial detention, was a legit- 
-tnate businessman who operated a 
restaurant cleaning business. 1 can 
tell you he's an honorable man. he's 
got a knring family and he's a hard 
<»-orker." the lawyer sakL 

Federal offldals. who spent near- 
ly a year investigating him. sakl 
Floyd represents a reiatively new 
ind alarming phenomenon on the 
urban drug scene an independent 
:nin entrepreneur who took advan- 
tage of the burgeoning demand ft>r 
Hrepower among aty drug trafTick- 
trrs. VVhile closely afGUaled with, 
.ind selling guiu to. one of the Mack 
drug gangs in his neighborhood, he 
simultaneously tipped ofl rival His- 
panic gangs and soM guns to them, 
the 'rifldals charge. 

"He was I mercenary." sakl Jack 
Riillas. the special agent ol the Phil- 

adelphia BATF office. "He was in- 
stigating .-inimosity between the 
gangs and selling to all sides.' 

'\Vith him a lot of it '.vas ego." 
said another law enforcement of- 
ficial. "He wanted to be the big man 
in the neighborhood. You got one of 
the worst dope-dealing neighbor- 
hoods in the city there. Anybody 
can get you the dope, but who can 
get you the guns.^ 

Law enforcement offidab said 
they have identifed at least 140 
firearms that Floyd imported into 
Philadelphia: light, easy-to-conceal 
pistols like the Raven 25: small 
9mm weapons that can be equipped 

"straw" purchases .ind using 
"mules" to transport large caches of 
weapons across sute lines, officials 

Last year, the BATF opened up 
more than 400 gun-smuggling in- 
vestigations, a 35 percent increase 
over 1989. Some involved move- 
ment of as many as 100 assault ri- 
fles and semiautomatic pistols. ' 
"What we're talking about is the 
arming of crtmiiuUs." said Jack Kil- 
tonn. BATF chief of public affairs. 
These (guns) are not going to your 
hamed homeowner for 

self-defense. . . . They are specif- 
ically intended for your inner-dty 

with silencers: and Tec-9s. lethaUj^"touth gangs and professional nar- 

U.S. -made Ua-lookalikes descnbedV^otics organizations." 

by one agent as an "all-time favor-V' Many cities where the guns end 

ite" among drug dealers. 

Operating nut of a small row 
house. Floyd used a gnntling mill to 
obliterate the serial numbers on the 
weapons and make tracing difficult, 
agents say. He then soM the guns at 
hefty markups: The lightweight 
Ravens that went lor ISO in Ohio 
soU on the street here for $250. 
The powerhouse Tec-9s. $200 
apiece in Ohk). were sold here for 
$500 each. 

The markups produced large 
profits: Floyd owned two BMWs 
.nnd a Jaguar and had "boxes' of goM 
chains and watches, according to a 
federal agent who searched his 
house. Although Floyd was alleg- 
edly involved in the drug business, 
"some of our witnesses said he was 
making more money on the guns 
than on his drup." said one inves- 

Law enforcement officials now 
believe some of these weapons 
were used in a rash of shootings and 
homicides that have turned Floyd's 
neighborhood into the most violent 
in the aty. Lost December, a key 
federal witness was murdered nine 

up have strm gun control laws. The 
District, with the highest homrcide 
rate in the country, forbids the pur- 
chase of handguns. Philadelphia, 
with a dtywide record 524 murders 
last year, tettnires a police permit 
to carry a handgun. Slate law also 
requires a three-day waiting period . 
on handgun purchases. 

But officials say the Floyd case 
shows how easy It is evade those 

Floyd chose to purchase his 
weapons in Ohio in part because he 
had strong roots in the Canton area: 
He grew up in the city -ind was a 
star high school football player who 
won a scholarship to Purdue: his 
mother still Uves in Canton. 

But he also benefitted from 
Ohio's lax gun laws. Theatesncfi-af- 
waitin g xnods has made Ohio a 
ley "Miirce state — akMig with 
Florida, Texas, and Virginia — (or 
handguns used in crime in major 
East Coast dties. according to fed- 
eral prosecutors and OATF figures. 

"We've had a fairly high incidence 
of people coming Ironi New York 
and OetrM and other aties to buy 
handguns in Ohio," said Sam Yan- 

days after he agreed to testify 

against Floyd. Police Commissioner _ nucd. assistant U.S. attorney 

Willie Williams said last week he " Akna 

also beUeves one of Floyd's guns 

may have been used in the Feb. 6 

murder of police officer Daniel 

Boyle, 21, gunned down by a fleeing 

robbery suspect who fired eight 

rapid shots into his patrol car. The 

murder weapon: a 9mm semiauto- 

matK pistol with its serial number 


Federal officials say Floyd re- 
fiects a larger national trend that IsaI Every tine. Floyd filled out a 
among the most frightening prob^ BATF fonn affirming that he did 
lems in law enforcement. As horn- not have a criminal record and that 

Federal pitaeaitors charge that 
between February and August of 
last year, Floyd made 10 visits to 
two Canton area sporting goods 
stores, buying between three and 
31 weapons on each trip. On three 
other occasions, he paid an assod- 
ate between $10 and $50 to make 
"straw" purchases of a total of 71 
weapons for him. 

iades reached record leveb. ex- 
ceeding 23.000 acrt>s5 the country 
last year, the interstate trafficking 
of nrearms has risen sharply. 

Street gangs and other crganized 
groups have entered the business, 
employing front men to make 

he was a resident of Ohio, listing hb 
mother's address as his residence, 
officials charge. The itore owners 
aba IBled out "multiple Durchase" 
forms reporting the ^iies to the 
kical BAIT office in Ycungstown. 
Those formj artiua-td I. - nteresl 

. . . indicted on nrtims charges 

of Ohio BATF agents, but they 
were unknown to a separate group 
of BATF agents in Philadelphia, 
who last March first traced to Floyd 
a gtm recovered from a drug dealer. 

Ohio's recortb were unknown in 
Philadelphia because Congress, in 
its annual appropriations biOs. has 
barred BATF from establishing a 
computented data base of gun pur- 
chasers. Such a data base would be 
"a precursor to conftscatica" o( fire- 
arms, said James Jay Baker, chief 
lobbyut (or the National Rifle As- 
sociation, which has backed the re- 

Agents say the restriction was 
one of their biggest obstades in the 
Floyd investigation. It's fnistrating 
.IS hell." said Tom Bowen. the 
case's chief BATF investigator, 
"We would have gotten to him a heH 
of a lot quicker." 

Agents in Philadelphia also qae»- 
lion the attitude of the sporting 
goods stores that were selliai 
Fkiyd and hb associates weapons. 
The indictment charges that Floyd 
.ind hb "straw" purchaser, a niaa 
named David Sheegog who has 
pleaded guilty in the case, bought 
more than 100 handguns from just 
one store — the Loading Bend) in 

But store manager Gkmumeffi 
said he never asked Floyd why he 
was buying the guns and when 
Fk)yd ordered weapons he (Hdn't 
have in stock. Td call up and order 
them. . . . It's not really my boi- 
ness (to ask questJons|,' he added. 
"The less I know, the safer Vm go- 
ing to be." 

That attitude resembled Floyd's, 
.iccording to one agent who dis- 
cussed the matter with him. "! sell 
IgunsI for defensive purposes, so 
the gangs can protect themeWea," 
the agent quoted Floyd as saying. 

Asked how he (elt about all the 
homiddes the guns caused. Floyd 
replied: "Once I sell them, that's not 
my problem," the agent said. 



Kids, guns: 
^lt?s shoot 
or be shot' 

tNumborlof ,;-^ ■^^■. 
fflreami and '?^. i^' 
h related deaths: s 


A week by 
' week look 
at the toll 
from a ven/ 
violent school 
year, 6A 

By Andrea Stone 

In the dosing days of tbe 
school year, amid class pic- 
nics and proms, two Murphys- 
boro, IlL, boys got Into a flgbt 
In the Junior high gym. 

Police say a 13-year-old 
pulled a gun and shot a 14- 
year-old. The same day. May 

17, a 14-year-old student at a 

Princeton, W.Va., high school 
took 20 people hostage and flred a shotgun at the prtndpaL 
V days later, Jason Michael Smith, 15, of Red Hill, 
Pa., J charged with pulling a handgun from hJs book twig 
to kill Michael Swann. 16, at Upper PerWomen High School 
This was not an Isolated week. Since school opened In 
September, not a week has passed In which a loaded gun 



■ Sourw: COC 

100,000 kkls take guns 
. to schoo< every day. 

160,000 stay home 
because ol fear. 

18% are related 

to dnjgs or gangs. 
1 5% Invotve ongoing 


1 3% are acddents 
wtiile playing or 
cleaning guns. 

1 2% are over romantic 

10% resull from fights 

over personal 


Sourcv: JusDco D6p(.; Cantor 
lo Pi »»enl hiandgun Vtotonce 


CMillnoed lr«m lA 

was absent from class — often with deadly consaiuences. 

Wlielher for protectJon, status or aj a way to deal wtlh pwb- 
lems, more Uds are packing guns to sctiool. Ttie JusUce De- 
partment says 100.000 children take guns to sctiool every day: 
160.000 more stay home liecause of tear. And though schools 
have anned themselves with everything from metal detectors 
to confilct mediators, many worry they re outgunned. 

"Schools are supposed to l>e safe places where you concen- 
trate on learning. no< surviving." says Northeaslem University 
olmlnologlst James Alan Fox. But now, "more kWs feel they 
nee<l to be armed." 

Tkmlka Parker knows the fear. Her friend. Michael Shesn 
Ensley, 17, was shot to death Feb. M by another student In a 
hallway of Los Angeles' Reseda High. "I know a lot of people 
carrying guia to school," says Parter, 11 "If I had one I'd 
probably carry H myself. ... I need to protect myself." 'V'- 

Ensley was one of three teens UUed In Ua Angeles school 
footings thb year. But guns arent just a big dty problem. 

When a 1 4-year-old student brought a gun to scare a romnn- 
Oc rival at a Feb i basketball game at Langley High School In 
affluent McLeaa Va. "It had a sobering effect" says prlndpal 
Joseph Aranglo. "We think these things don't happen to us but 
they da They re part of our sodety." 

School oOdals say It's Impossible to shield their campuses 
— especially when so many guns come from parents' drawers. 

And olSclals say that when guns are brought to school. It has 
btUe to do with what's going on In the classroom. 

According to the Center to FYevent Handgun Violence: 

^ 18% of school gun Inddents are related to drugs or gangs. 

► 15* Involve longstanding dhagreements. 

► 10* result from Bghts over personal property like jackets. 
Some are )ust acddents and others are romantic squabbles 
"Kids are hotheads," says Northeaslem's Foil "Most Ind- 
dents Involve spontaneity, arguments that escalate." 

Adds Michael Ijaserly of the CouncU of Great Qty Schools: 
"Adults have set a very bed example. This Is as moch a prob- 
lem of adults being violent and showing violence to children as 
It b a proWem with our kids." 

Students also report It's easy to get a gun when they want IL 
An American Medical Association poll last year found a third 
of high school students say they have easy access to guns. 

A poll of Seattle high school )unlors found nearly halt of boys 
dalmed they could get harxlguns easily and 1 1 * owned a fl re- 
arm. Most said they could get guns from friends, street dealers 
or at home- In rural areas, where bunting Is popular among 
both parents and stodents. guns are easy to come by at home. 

There are kits ol guns out there," says Mike GonroB, prlnd- 
pal of Saiatoga Sprlx^gs (N.Y.) Junior High School, where a stu- 
dent was suspended March 3 for bringing a Jt caliber revolv- 
er to class. "We're treallnR K very seriously.* 

IB Amartlla Jeannle Lucas has been u a tc e iii ed since ber 
dsogbtei w Uumtd a 17-y«ar-oid stndeol open Ire In ■ ball at 
Palo Duro High, wooadlng sfaL "Every monilag before she 
goes to school I pray to the Lord to keep her safe," she says. 

Sctiool oSldab are Increasingly ow cer oed about the num- 
bers o( students who use guns to cope with probtens. "Fist 
Ights seem to be ohsolele," says VJcUe Grant, Milwaukee 
sdMOl safety dbedor. "Its at the point of shoot or be shoL" 

School dlstrlcls In New 'Vort. Los Angeles. San Dleta, Oak- 
land, Dade County, Fla, liad New Jersey now teach the dan- 
gen of guns as early as prv-Undergarien. Others hare started 
medlatloa piu^ia i i a to resolve differences before they fester. 

Sloce students at Duvall High In CreentTell Md_ betao me- 
diating peers' p r oMe iiu three years ago, offldats say ftgbts and 
su spenstoos are down 50%. Says Vanessa GlUlam-Colller, Du- 
Vall's adult medlaUon coordinator "We help them peacefully 
settle their problem without resorting to vlotencc." 

But others offer different solutions. New York state Attorney 
General Robert Abrams this week urged lawmakers to itUfen 
penalties for gun possession on school grounds. 

More schools have turned to locker sweeps, security guards, 
Identity cards, fewelry bans and metal detedors. At least 4S 
school districts use hand-held detedots. 

11 taka students a while to get Into school with metal detec- 
lon but ve have to face reality. Guns are out there," says 
school olBdal David Rudd of Chicago, where walk.thou8h de- 
tedocs are available In all high schools. "It's a matter of keep- 
ing the learning environment safe." 

others disagree. The American Qvll Liberties Union 
Wednesday said Los Angeles should stop using mebil detedors 
and review is policy of automatically expelling students who 
bring guns taschooL Instead, the ACLV urged, schools should 
teach students bow to resolve contllds peacefully. 

"Metal deledors do nothing but create false barriers." says 
Pviei Blauven, chairman of the National Association of School 
Safety and Law Enforcement OlBcers. "11 becomes a game for 
kidr How can I beat them?" " 

Many do, says Mike Busu, a senior at Los Angeles' Reseda. 
Though deledors were bought after this years killings. "They 
cant track down every gun. There are at least 12 entrances." 

OtSdab admit detectors aren't foolproof and. as Fox notes, 
they "remind kl<h on a dally basts how vulnerable they are." 

Says Oilcigos Rurid: "Metal detedors are not a panacea. 
They can only do so much. A lot depends on what messages 
children are receiving onre they leave school." 

Confrihtifmg: SnBv Ann Sle»-art 




Week by week, guns 
take a toll in schools 

IN RED Km, PAj At left. 
J«3on Sinllh. 15. Is aaood- 
ed to a/TBignmerl May 24 
on cha/ga« ot first-degree 
murder and vofcxittfy min- 
slaughter In the shootng a( 
MIciiaal Swanrv 16, ^XM*. 
at Upper Partdoman Hk^ 

. ^ •^"P"'*'''' a wmk ha, paoKirtb. B-19: Da Molao. A IJ^^ar-okl midou al 
duru^y,4aci, tuns ymabmttrant}» nation', »AaoU. Hanllnj MkKlk School b »ipen<)«J Feb 16 an« lb. 
No one ofency cxmpOes kiKntional or ooddantol <hoo<- prlndml toDs a loaded i:-callber jemlauianaUc 
mtt oivoMni Oudana, but these brndenU — frnm news n- baodeui la die Budenft walstianl 
porti oivl polioi — of «f a u>t«M>ywe«li look at echool vao- 
lanta (his ichool year. (Cover stery. '*> ci. <>o oe 

Feb 22-26: Lai Aofeles. A W-yearold student. Mi- 
SOfrt. 7-11: AmarUlo, Teiai. A H-year-old mident cnens ^'"^ ^''" Ensely. Is shot and killed by a l^year-old 
Are Sepc 1 1 In a Paio Duro iUgb School hallway with a M- iiudeot Feb. 22 in a crowded hallway of subuiban Rese- 
callber pbul. wounding >lz soideoti. A seventh student Is '" '"<'> ScbooL 
uatnpled In the panic 

SopL 14-18: JaekaaovUlc, Fla. 

a^i is.i>i> i.,i,.<»„^ii. ■:,. . w .. _ MVCll 1-5: Los Angeles. A 14-year-old boy is shot in 

5'^?f^S>-^-^"°^ ru.^t3^"„J;^^°^^^"-"^^^ 

School Sepl 15. He surreiders tnonienls later wtlh a anall- *^ ^^ ^^ 

caliber semlautomadcplstoL MarCti B-C: Manasaa. Part, v.. A 12-year-old boy 

^^mf ^t-9R» /•-! »j •■*...* ... •cddenOUly iboots a classmate In il« nght ihumb and 

SJ^^hi^5S?;,^r^^r^ Pf^ opeo ire March 9« Manassas Part Inieni«<llaie School 
sepL 23 on the basketbAlt coun of Plae Ridge Mkldie ScbooL 

J!S1^'Lrey'°;ifb«Te^'SiS^S?S°i '^'""" """^-^ °"~"^ '"^""« ' '^' 
John Marshall Hl«h School. „a^ 22-26: Dal. Qty. Va. A 16-year<^d isJaUed 

Ort. S-8: "«-«.. A gang .ght an«„ satde^s at North- TcS-Ft^STsS^ """""' '^"'*' "^"^ 
brook High Ocl 6 leaves 16-year-old Luis Mesa dead and an- ^ 

ou, took place 00 a nearby elemem«y »^ool playground ,^ „ .^^X ,„,.^^^„ s^<„, .„ .^^ 

April 26-30: Mount Praaped. lU. Three studenQ 
arc suspended ai River Trails MiddJe School April 30 
after a l^-year-old alms what appears to be a 7&-cali 
ber handgun at a teacher's head and pulls the trigger 

May 3-8: Shreveport. La. A loaded J3'CaUt>er pisiol 
b taaefl from a trst-grade student at Forest Ulil Ele- 
mentary School during recess- 

May 10-14: Irvlns, Texas. A 17-year-old snideni Is 
thot May 14 by another 1 7-year ^d while walking in a 
hall at NlmlQ High School. 

May 17-24: Prlacelon, W.Va. A gun-wleldlng H 
year-old student fires at his principal May 17 and takes 
20 people bostage at Princeton Hl^ School belore be- 

log disarmed. 

May 24-28: Red HUI. pa. Jasoo Smith, a IS^ear-otd 
itudenl al Upper Pcridomen High School, pulls ■ 9mm 
automatic handgun In a biology class May 24 and kills 
16-year-old Michael Swann. a fellow student. 

CompMod by TUh Wetta. Lynetta Coftat»ntlnkl«a. 
Jenr\ifer CampbaO, Mary Smarvgdls and The Asso- 
cialAd Press 

ClMun v4a AJ> 

Oct. 12-16: Tucson. Oscar Daniel *f* If"^ '"'?»? ««) them with . gun and planning 
Leon, a le-year-old student at Desen 'f^'**"! ""^'^'^ 

Sri2"!l?jT<^,^nSS |?.S *P^ *-8= L" en--. "■*«• '^ "venlh^nuter a, Zl. 
sSool .Tkin.. iL P^ ""»* »Zddle School ihootsanother 14-yo.r-oldltudenl April 

parsing 101 , ^^^^ ,„ ^^ crowded schoolyard 

SShr l?^L,"j°„'^^ .v^nSf" *P«^' '^-■W: Atlanta. A I e-yearold auden. at Alonlo 
SS^ l^ST^ ^„^^m'2[ ^ Comprehensive High School U she. In the foot 

found In a daannateS backpack April 19-23: Palneavllle, Ohio A ityearold n>i 
dent Is suspended April 22 from Harvey High School 
after bringing a .S^callber revolver lo class. 


Teen deaths by guns set record in '90, report says 

ly 4^00 teen-agera were kiUed by 
fireanna in 1990, more than ever 
before, the government reported 

Health and Human Services 
Secretary Donna Shalala called the 
statistics "frightening and intoler- 

Only motor vehicle accidents kill 
more teens and young adults than 
rireai-ras, the National Center for 
Health Statistics said. One in every 
four 'ieilL^^5 among those aged 15 to 

Only motor velucle 
accidents kill more teens 
and young adults than 
fii varms. 

U in 1990 was a fu-earms fatality. 

Thirty-nine percent more 
deaths occurred from firearms than 
from natural causes. 

The firearms homicide and sui- 
cide rates for young men weie five to 

10 times higher than for females. 
Among all 16- to 19-yeai--olda, there 
were 4,173 firearms deaths m 1990, a 
iTse of nearly 600 over the year 
before and 1,676 more than in 1986. 

The rale for black males in that 
age group has soared to 106 deaths 
per 100,000 in 1990 11-oni 37 per 
100,000 in 1986. Among white males, 
it nearly doubled bxm five deaths 
per 100,000 to almost 10 

Lois A. Fingert.ui was the au- 
llior of Ihe study on "Fiiiearni Mor- 
tality Among Childitn, YouUi and 

LEON OCL 26^=30. ISRfle Kock. AHc 

Twelve stodents awl (heir teacher at 
McOeUan High School savnbie for cover as gunsbote shatter 
(he glass door of (heir dasroom oo Oct. 26. An 1 fryearoM and 
l^year-old later are arrested. 

Nov. 2-6: RJcbardnn, Texas. Sean Patrick Cooper, a 17- 
year-otd stDdeot at Bertaer High School, is forced trotn his 
car Dear the school parMng bX aner a Nov. 6 football game. 
He Is then shot and kflled. Eleven people. Including itudeirts 
front a rival school, are arrested. 

Nov. 9-11: Chicago, wniie day- 
born, a aeventb-grader at Sherroan 
Etemcntary School, fatally shoots 
hhnself Nov. to in front of Oassnates 
while piayfaig with a gun broogbt 
froin booae. 

Nov. 1&-20: CUcaga FUtecD- 
year-oid Oeloadyn LavnoD, a student, 
b tfMt and killed Nov. 20 at Edmtrd 
Tllden Higb School on the Sooth Side. 
At UMiA»n High School on the West 
Side, weaiMoi aeiznres aad arress of 
sodeais lead to a meiee daring a pep 

Th* CNogo TilMi* 

Filly that 

gym wan Is fall, lujuilug 13 Mudei rti, 


Young Adults, 1 -34 Years of Age." . 

Slie sakl Uiere were 19,722 fire- 
arms deaths among chiklren and 
young adults in 1^, and 37,166 
deaths by firearms among Ameri- 
cans of all ages. 

Richard Abom, president of (he 
Center to Prevent Handgun Vio- 
lence, said the United Slates h^. 
rushed to the akl of chiklren starving 
in a far-off land, but "whei^ is Ijie 
interventkjn needed (o save the chil- 
driai who are dying needlessly right 
heie in the U.S.A ?" 

Nov. 23-27: New Britain, Coon. The school s up e rinl e u - 
dent on Nor. 24 asfcs police to come to New BiKaln High 
School and two middle schools afterfhoB are fired dortng a 
school dancs; four students are arrested with loaded gons. 

Nov. 30-0eC.4: PWUdelpWa. a I47ear-aid polls oat a 
sawed<fl sho^gan in the crowded Sooth Phlladepfaia High 
School cafeteria on Dec 1 and hands tt to a IS^rorold On- 
dent, who shoots a 17-year-old student fai the leg. 

Dec 7-11: IrrtDe. CaUL A I7-year-oid smdent at SELF Al- 
tetnsiive School is shot Dec. 8 by a fellow student with a J8- 
callber bandgon. The shooting which took ptace hi a Deait>y 
paitlttglaC is the second gonfigbt Involving studenci at the 
school in three weeks. 

Doc. 14-18: Walton. N.Y. A 16-yeaivald shoots English 
teacher Virginia WDcox in )aw with .Z2<aUber rifle at O74ei0 
Higb School Dec H after she refuses to let him read a poem. 

Jan. 4-8: Leola, Pa. A 15-year-oM studejit at Peqnea Valley 
High School acddentaUy shoots and klUs 17-year-old student 
Tltnothy Stauller with a pistol Jan. 8. 

Jan. 11-15: imamL An 18-year-old senior. Conroy Robin- 
son, is shot and kUled by another student after arguing omside 
Noriand High School Jan. 12. Police say ifs the 80th Incident 
InvDlTing irearms at Dade County schools this school year. 

JSl. 18-22: Grayaon, Ky. Gary 
Penntngtoa 17, carrying a revolver at 
East Carter High School holdsa high 
school class hostage Jan. 18, then 
shoots and kills teacher Deanna 
McDavid and custodian Marvin 
Hicks in front of sudents. 

Jan. 25-29: Monroe Township, 
NJ. An 18-year-old student at WU- 
Uainstown High School ts arrested 
Jan. 29 after bringing a J57<aUber 
handgun, an atiioniatic hflndgun and 
a paging device to dass. 

Fob. 1^ Heostoo. An 18-year-old senior at Booker T. Wash- 
ington High School shoots a sophomore to the Jaw with a J8- 
callber revolver during a Feb. 5 fight to a school bathroom. 

Fob. 8-12: Bangor, Pa. A IJ^rear-old student at Bangor Ju- 
nior High Schoot puOs a .25-callbcr handgun In a counselor's 
otfice on Feb. 9. He shoots hlmseU and loses an eye. 

Farewell to a best friend 


DEAD AT 16: T-anaie Henry says goodbye at the Jan. 28 
hr>em o( one of her best (riends. Demetrks Fltee. kSted wtien 
a 357 Maonum riside a dassmates bookbag acckJentaly 
tfcchartjed donrV] dass at Palrlax Htah In Los Ar^o-w.-; 




Monday, June 7, 1993 

Six harassment 
in school reflects 
culture in decline 

I'm glad, I suppose, 
that sexual harassment 
is being condemned in 
the national press. The 
most recent example is a 
study commissioned by 
the American Associa- 
tion of University Wom- 
en showing that the be- 
havior is widespread 
among junior-high and 
high-school students na- 

But there is a dis- 



innuendoes. And that's 
during the family hour. 
Many of the magazines 
sold at supermarket 
checkout counters look 
like soft pom. Even vid- 
eo games (aimed exclu- 
sively at children) are so 
sexually violent that one 
manufacturer has 

agreed to start labeling 
them to enable parents 
to monitor what Idds are 
seeing. The language, vi- 

tressing lade of clarity in the discus- olence and sexual content of movies 
sion of the issue, and I fear that a is so raw that many adults would 
facile and superficial understanding hesitate to attend with their aging 
of the problem will lead to simplistic parents — though they might look 
and formulak solutions — like con- the other way when their 14-year-old 
sciousness-raising classes — that son sees the films again and again. 
wiD skirt the true problem. How can parents, who allow 
In the first place, any study that their prepubescent daughters to 
purports to find that 81 percent of wear bras on the outside of their 
students are victims of something clothing, like Madonna, the teen idol, 
(other than math quizzes) is suffer- be surprised to learn that coarse 
ing fix)m overbroad definitions. So it sexual talk and manners are corn- 
is with this study conducted by Louis mon in the halls of junior high 
Harris and Associates. Acconiing to schools? 

the study's usage^'^^dexual- Morass 
merd includes everything from hav- 
ing clothing torn off and being forced 
to perform sexual acts, to unwanted 
sexual jokes, gestures or looks. It is 

^This culture, awash in cheap 
sexual thrills, has lost si^t of the 
noble, the fine and the uplifting. Sex 
is too important to be cheapened 
without disastrous results. When we 

hardly surprising that by the latter demean sex, we demean our human- 
loose standard, more than fo?ir- fifths ity. 


of the students defined themselves My religion, Judaism, is a reli- 

as victims of sexual harassment gion of laws. There are thousands of 

Still, the fact that more than 60 laws regulating every aspect of hu- 

percent of girls and 40 percent of man conduct But there are more 

boys ajged 13 to 17 report that they rules about sex and eating than any- 

have been "touched, grabbed or thing else. Why? Because those are 

pinched in a sexual way is evidence behaviors we ^are with animals — 

of something. But what? and it is doubly important that we 

That's the critical question, invest them with meaning, order and 

What is going on here? Is this the sanctity. 

eariy blooming of the kind of sexual If our kids are behaving like 

harassment that the feminists claim boors, grabbing at one anothers' 

is a male-invented weapon to subju- bodies, leaving obscene notes in 

ate women? Is — — ^ — ; spreading sexual 

that what 11 and The Overwhelming rumors, as the 

12-year-old boys yjjhnritv and ^paminess ^^"^y. i"<l^ca^' 

are thinking? vi^Jguriiy ana seammeM .^ jg ^^^^^^^ ^ 

I submit that has come to adults have pe-- 

that we are not dominate our culture has mitted them to 

^tfj^ borne predictable fiuit ^L^TcJew^ 

problem -o^ the •'^"■^^■^^^"■^"'""'^"""" Married with 

war between the sexes. We are deal- Children and The Love Connection. 

ing with a cultural problem. The It is because we have long since 

overwhelming vulgarity and seami- abandoned modesty, respect and 

ness that has come to dominate our chastity as relics of an irrelevant 

culture in entertainment, mores and past It is poignant that the new 

manners has borne predkrtable fruit freedom has left the children so 

We are raising difldren and adoles- unhappy. 

cents who think nothing of telling an What is called sexual harass- 

ll-year-oW giri on a school bus to ment is really just vulgar behavfor, 

have oral sex with her father (an and it can be added to the list of 

actual case), or threatening a 12- accomplishments of the sexual revo- 

year-old with rape. hition — right under "epidenuc of 

Is tWs shocking? Only to the teen-age pregnancy," and just above 

inattentive. Turn on network televi- "AIDS." 
sion any night of the week, and you 
will get an earful of coarse language, 
puerile double entendres and vulgar 


Schools must teach proper behavior 


It happens in public 
not behind a closed office 
door. There is no "he 
said, she said" dispute 
about the facts. Every- 
body can see what's go- 
ing on: friends, class- 
niates, teachers. 

A boy backs a gii-i 
up against her junior- 
high locker. Day after 
day. A high-school junior 

in the hallway grabs a 

boy's butt. A sophomore ^^"^^ 
in the playgi-ound grabs a girl's 
blouse. An eighth-grade girl gets up 
to speak in dSss, and the boys begin 
to "moo" at her. A ninth-grader finds 
out that her name and her "hot 
number" are posted in the boys' 
It's all quite normal, or at least 
it's become the norm. This aberrant 
behavior is now as much a part of the 
daily curriculum, the things children 
learn, as math or social studies. Or 
their worth in the world. 

This is the searing message of 
another survey that came spilling 
out of the schoolhouse door last 
week. This one, commissioned by the 
American Association of University 
Women, confirmed the grim fact that 
four out of five public-school stu- 
dents between grades eight and 11 

— 86 percent of the g&is and 76 
percent of the boys — have experi- 
enced sexual harassment 

That's if sexual harassment 
means — and it does — "unwanted 
and unwelcome sexual behavior 
which interferes with your life." 
That's if sexual harassment includes 

— and it does — sexual comments, 
touching, pinching, grabbing and 

The girls in schools are the more 
fiiequent targets of the more serious 
verbal and physical assaults. They 

suffer more painful re- 
percussions in their 
lives, their grades, their 
sense of well-being. 

But the notion that 
"everybody does it" is 
not far off the mark. If 
some 81 percent of the 
students in the AAUW 
survey were targets, 
here's another figure to 
remember. Some 59 per- 
cent — 66 percent of the 
^■^^^ boys and 52 percent of 
the girls — admitted that they had 
done unto others what was done to 

In public spaces in public 
schools, nearly every student is then 
a target or a perpetrator or a by- 
stander — or all three in turn. The 
vast majority have been up close and 
too personal with sexual harassment 
Yet we are still gr^pling with how it 
happened and how to change the 
schoolhouse and hallway. 

In Minnesota, the agent of 
change has been a fistful of lawsuits. 
In California, a new law was passed 
that allows expulsions. Elsewhere, 
schools are loolang for a magic bul- 
let a one-day workshop, a 10-point 

But cultural change requires 
more than a crash curriculum; there 
is no quick fix in the creeping court 
system. Indeed, Mary Rowe of the 
Massachusetts Institute of Technol- 
ogy, who has studied harassment for 
more than a decade, has learned that 
the vast majority of students won't 
bring their stories to any formal 
grievance procedure, let alone a 
courtroom. "They won't tattle 

For a host of reasons, she and 
others, like Nan Stein of Wellesley 
College, have come to believe that 
the schools need a wider range of 
choices to fill the space between 

doing nothing and suing. They need 
teachers who see and say no to 
harassment in class. They need de- 
signated adults in schools who can 
listen and help. They need to help 
students address each other directly 
and honestly. In one tactic a student 
is encouraged to write a personal 
letter to the classmate who hurt her 
. . . perhaps unwittingly. 

A sdiool culture of sexual har- 
assment exists in a wide and trou- 
bling social context but change ulti- 
mately rests in the hands of the 
students themselves. After all, not 
all boys will be boys. Not all girls 
follow the leader. 

So, these days, when Nan Stein 
goes into a school, she says, "I talk a 
lot about courage" She thinks the 
role that everybody plays, the by- 
stander, as pivotal. "Kids have to 
learn to speak out to make moral 
judgments. I tell them not to be 
moral spectators." 

Sexual harassment is, as Stein 
says, an older cousin to bullying. 
Students who understand the divid- 
ing line between teasing and bully- 
ing can learn the line between sexual 
play and harassment They can draw 
that line 

The most powerfiil tool for the 
everyday garden-variety misery of 
name-calling, body-pinching and 
sexual bullying that turns a school 
hallway into' a gantlet may not be a 
lawsuit It may be one high-school 
senior walking by who says, "Don't 
do that it's gross." It may be one 
group of buddies who don't laugh at 
the joke 

In our society, the courts are the 
last-ditch place for resolving con- 
flicts. The schools must become the 
place for teaching basics — such as 
respect and courage. 

Ellen Goodman writes for The 
Boston Gtobe. 


September 28. 1991 



Changes In 1991 Coliimbus City Code 


ORD. No. 2131 -91— To amend Sections 2301 .14, 2303.01 . 
2305.02. 2305.0A. md 2317.01. Columbus City Codes, to pro- 
vide for a mandator)' term of impnsomnem for violation of those 
sections of the cnmiiuJ code when the offense is committed 
upon school premises, and to declare an emergency, 

WHEREAS, Council Member Kennedy has been working 
with the schools and police on the "Drug Free-Weapon Free" 
School Zone program, and 

WHEREAS, the commission of ciiminaJ offenses on school 
premises must be reduced and deterred by appropnaie penalties, 

WHEREAS, to detir offenses on school premises it is in the 
best interest of the City, teachers, and students, to provide for 
mandawry penalties for certain violent or disruptive miscon- 
duct on school premises, and 

WHEREAS, the school year has already commenced and the 
"Drug Free-Weapon Free"' School Zone program has been par- 
tially implemented, and there have already been instances of 
offenses on school premises, thus it is aeceuary to declare this 
measure to be an erairgency ordinance in order to immediate- 
ly preserve the public peace, health, property, or safety, and 
also due to an emergency in the usual daily operation of the 
Department of Public Safety, Division of Police, so that of- 
fenses will be deterred, arrests made and charges filed with 
enhanced peiulties. to aid m enforcement and punishment of 
wrongdoers. f»w therefore 


Section 1. That Section 2301. Id. Columbus City Codes, be 
amended to read as follows: 

2301.14 General definitions. 

(A) "Force" means any violence, compulsion, or oonsoaint 
physically exerted by any meaas upon or against a per- 
son or thmg. 

(B) "Physicaiharm to persons" means any injury, illness, 
or other physiological impairment, regardless of its 
gravity or duration. 

(O "Physical harm to propery" means any tangible or in- 
tangible damage to property which, in any degree, results 
in loss to its value or interferes with its use or enjoy- 
ment. "Physical harm » property ' does not include 
wear and tear occasioned by nornod use. 

(D) "Serious physical harm to persons" means any of the 


(1) Any mental illness or condition of such gravity as 
would normally require bospitalizabon or prolong- 
ed psychiatric treatment. 

f2) Any physical harm which carries a substantial nsk 
of death. 

(3) Any physical harm which involves some permanent 
incapacity, whether partial or total, or which in- 
volves some temporary, substanial capacity. 

(4) Any physical harm which involves some permanent 
disfigurement, or which involves some temporary, 
serious disfigurement. 

(5) Any physical ham which involves acute pain of such 
duration as to result in substantial suffering, or 
which involves any degree of prolonged or intract- 
able pain 

(E) "Serious physical harm to property" means any physical 
harm to property which does either of the following: 

(1) Results in substantial loss of the value of the pro- 
perty, or requires a substantial amount of rime, ef- 
fort, or money to repair or replace; 

(2) Temporarily prevents the use or enjoyment of the 
property, or substantially interferes with its use or 
enjoyment for an extended period of time. 

(F^ "Risk" means a significant possibility, as contrasted 
with a remote possibility, that a certain result may oc- 
cur or that certain circumstances may exist. 

(G) "Substantial risk" means a strong possibility, as con- 
trasted with a remote or significant possibility , that a ccr- 
tam result may occur or that certain circumstances may 

(H) "Offense of violence" means any of the following: 

(1) A violationofSections2303.01, 2303.03. 2303.04, 
2317.08, 2317.10. and 2323.02 of the Columbus Ci- 
ty Codes; 

(2) A violation of any section listed in Division (Dd) 
of Section 2901.01 of the Ohio Revised Code: 

(3) A violation of an existing or former municipal or- 
dinance or law of this or any other state or the United 
States, substantially equivalent to any section listed 
in Division (HXO or (2) of this section: 

(4) An offense, other than a traffic offense, under an 
existing or former municipal ordinance or law of this 
or any state or the Uniiwl States, committed purpose- 
ly or knowingly; and involving physical harm to per- 
sons or a risk of serious physical harm to persons: 

(5) An attempt to ootnmit, or complicity m committmg 
any offense under Division (H)(1), (2), (3) or (4) 
of this section. 

(I) "Property" means any property, real or personal, tangi- 
ble or intangible, and any interest or license in such pro- 
perty. "Property" includes, but is not limited to. elec- 
tionicaUy process-sd. produced, or stored dau. data while 
in transit, computer programs in either machine or 
human readible form, and any original or copy of a docu- 
ment associated with computers. As used in this subsec- 
tion, "computer", "computer program", and "data" 
have the same meaning as in Section 2305 01 of the Col- 
umbus Codes. 

(J) "Law enforcement officer" means any of the following: 

(1) A sheriff, deputy sheriff, consuWe, manhal. deputy 
marshal, municipal police officer, or state highway 

(2) An officer, agent, or employee of the state or any 
of its agencies, instrumcntalides or political subdivi- 
sions, upon whom, by statute, a duty to conserve 
the peace or to enforce all or certain laws is imposed 
and the authority to arrest violators is conferred, 
within the limits of such statutory dury and authority: 

(3) A mayor, in his capacity as chief conservator of the 
peace wuhin his municipality: 




September 28. 1991 

(41 A member of an auxilUar> police force orjjnized 
by county, lowTuhip. or muniapal law enforcement 
iutbonues. within the scope of such member's ap- 
pointment or commtssran. 

(5) A person lawfully called pursuant to Section 3U.07 
of the Ohio Revised Code to aid a sheriff in keeping 
the peace, for the purposes and during the tiroe when 
such person is caUed. 

(6) A person appointed by a mayor pursuant to Section 
T37.01 of the Ohio Revised Code as a special 
patrolman or officer during riot or emergency, for 
the purposes and during the time when such person 
is appointed; 

(7) A member of the orgamzed militia of this State or 
the Armed Forces of the United States, lawfully call- 
ed to duty to aid civil authonties in keeping the peace 
OT protect against domestic violence; 

(8) A prosecuting attorney, assistant prosecuting at- 
torney, secret service officer, or municipal 

(9) City employees whose duties include the isstiance 
of parking infractioos. 

(K) "Pnvilege" means an immunity, license, or right con- 
ferred by law, or bestowed by express or implied grant 
or arising out of status, position, office, or relation^p. 
or growing out of necessity. 

(L) "School premises" means any one or more of the 

(1) The parcel or real property on which any school is 
Situated, whether or not any instnjction, extracur- 
ricular activities, or training provided by the school 
is being conducted on the premises at the tune a 
cruninal offense is committed; 

(2) Any other paroel of real property that is owned or 
leased by a board of education of a school or the 
governing body of a school for which the sate board 
of education prescribes minimum standards under 
section 3301.07 of the Revised Code and on which 
some of the inttrt>ction. extracurricular activitjej, or 
training of the school is conduoed, whether or not 
any instruction, extracurricular activities, or train- 
ing provided by the school is being conduaed on the 
parcel of real property at the tune a criminal offense 
IS committed: 

(3) Any building in which any of the mttruction, ex- 
tracurricular aaivities. or training provided by a 
school is conducted, whether or not any instruction, 
extiacurricular activities, or training provided by the 
school is being conducted m the s^ooi building at 
the time a criminal offense is committed. 

Section 2. That Seaion 2303.01, Columbus City Codes, be 
amended to read as follows: 

2303^1 Assault. 

(A) No person shall knowingly cause or attempt to cause 
physical harm to another, 

(B) No person shall recklessly cause serious physical harm 
to another 

(C) Whoever violates this section is guilty of assault, a 
misdeart>eanor of the first degree. 

If the offense occured on school premises, or within 
1000 feet of the boundaries of school premises, then the 
coun shall impose a mandatory term of imprisonment 
of at least thirty days, which shall not be suspended, shall 
be a period of consecutive imprisonment, and dunng 

which mandatory minimum term of imprisonment the 
defendant shall not be eligible for probation, house ar- 
rest, or work release. 
Section 3. That Section 2305.02. Columbus City Codes shall 
be amended to read as follows: 

2305il2 Criminal damaging or endangering. 

(A) No person shall cause, or create a substantial risk of 
physical harm to any property of another without his 

(1) Knowmgly. by any means: 

(2) Recklessly, bj' means of fire, explosion, flood, poison 
gas. poison, radioactrve material, caustic or corrosive 
material, or other inherently dangerous agency or 

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilt)' of cnmuial damag- 
ing or endangering, a misderaeaoor of the second degree. 
If violation of this section creates a risk of physical harm 
to any person, criminal damaging or endangering is a 
misdemeanor of the first degree. 

If the offense occurred on school premises, or withui 
1000 fiMt of the boundaries of school premises, then the 
court shall impose a mandatory term of imprisonment 
of at least thirty days, which shall not be suspended, shall 
be a period of consecutive impnsonmeni, and during 
which mandatory minimum term of imprisonment the 
defendant shall not be eligible for probation, house ar- 
rest, or work release. 

S«ctk>n 4. That Section 2305.04, Columbus City Codes, shall 
be amended to read as follows: 

2305.04 Criminal trespass. 

(A) No person, without privilege to do so. shall do any of 
the fbllowuig: 

0.) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises 
of another; 

(2) Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises 
of another, the use of which is lawfully restricted to 
certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the 
offender knows he is in violauon of any such restric- 
tion or is reckless in that regard, 

(3) Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises 
of another, as to which notice against unauthorized 
access or presence is given by actual communication 
to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law. 
or by posting in a manner reasonably calculated to 
come to the attention of potential intruders, or by 
fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to 
restria access; 

(4) Being on the land or premises of another negligent- 
ly fail or refuse to lea^e upon being notified to do 
so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant 
of either 

(B) It is no defense to a charge under this seaion that the 
land or premises involved v/as owned, controlled, or in 
custody of a public agency. 

(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the 
offiaider was authorized to enter or remain on the land 
or premises involved, when such authorization was 
secured by deception. 

(D) Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal 
trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. Not- 
withstanding the penalty provided in Section 2301.10. 
whenever an organization is guilt)- of violating this sec- 
tion such organization shall be fined noi more than two 
hundred fif^\ dollars. 


September 28. 




If the offence occurred on school premises, or within 
1000 feet of the boundaries of school premises, tben the 
court shall impose a mandatory term of imprisonmeni 
of at least ten days, which shall not be suspended, shall 
be a period of consecutive imprisonment, and during 
which mandatory minimum term of unprisonmem the 
defendant shall not be eligible for probation, house ar- 
rest, or work release. 


A used in this section, "land or premises" includes any 
land, building, structure, or place belonging to. controll- 
ed by, or in custody of another, and any separate 
enclosure or room, or portion thereof. 

Section 5. That Section 2317.01. Columbus City Codes, shall 
be amended to read as follows: 

2317i>l Disorderly conduct. 

(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, an- 
noyance, or alarm to another, by doing any of the 

(1) Engaging in figfatiog, in threatening harm to persons 
or property, or in violent or turbulent bchivior'. 

(2) Making unreasonable noise: 

(3) Insulting, taunting, or challenging another uadex cir- 
cumstances in which such conduct is likely to pro- 
voke a violent response: 

(4) Hindering or preventing the movement of persons 
on a public street, road, highway, or nght-of-way, 
or to. from, within, or upon public or private pro- 
perty, so as to interfere with the rights of others, and 
by any aa which serves no lawfiil and reasonable 
purpose of the oftnder. 

(5) Creating a condition which is physically offensive 
to persons or which presents a risk of physical harm 
to persons or prtjpeity, by any act which serves no 
lawf\il and reasonable purpose of the offender. 

(B) Ho person, while voluntarily intoxicated shall do either 
of the following: 

(1) In a public place or in the presence of two or more 
persons, engaged in conduct likely to be offensive 
or to cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to 
persons of ordinary sensibilities, which conduct the 
offender, if he were not inioxicsed, should know is 
likely to hxn such effea on others; 

(2) Engage in conduct or create a condition which 
presents a risk of physical bann to himself or another, 
or to the pr op er ty of another. 

(C) Violation of any statute or ordinance of which an ele- 
ffient is operating a motor vehicle, locomotive, water- 
znfl. aircraft, or other vehicle while under the influet»ce 
of alcohol or any drug of abuse, is not a violation of Divi- 
sion (B) of this seaion. 

(D) When lo an ordinary observer a person appean to be in- 
towaied. it » probabie cause o believe sudi pcooo is volun- 
ouly uaoxicajed for purpose of Division (B) of this seoioft 

(E) Whoever violates Division (A), paragraphs I. 3. 4. or 5 of 
this section is guilty of disotderiy conduct, a madenwmor 
of the (buith degree. Whoever violates Divisioo (A), 
paragraph 2 or Division (B). oC this section a guilty of 
disorderly conduct, a minor misdemeanor. If the ofleJider 
of Division (A), paragraph 1 or Division (B) persisB in 
disorderly conduct after reasonable 'taming or ieqi«st to 
desist, disoidetly coodua DivisMO (A), paiagnph 2 or DKv 
sion (B) is a misdemeanor of tbe fourth de^ee. 

If the ofimse under Division (A), paragi ap hs 1. 3. or 5 
ocoined on school piemises, or within DOOtaoftebwuv 
daries of school pccmises, !ben the cout shall JtrpoK a man- 
datory tenn of impiisonment of at least fen days which shall 
not be suspended, shaQ be a period cfcoosconw imprisoo- 
ment, and during which tnandaiory minimum cim of inv 
priso n me n t the defendett shall not be eligible tx prcbtoon. 
bouse azrest. or work release. 

Stctioa & Tlis tbe existing Sections 230L14. 23030. 230SO2. 
230504, and 2317131, Cohanbus City Codes, be and hereby are 

Section 7. That for the reasons stsed in tbe prennble beien, 
wfaKh is heniiy node a put hereof, this OidinanoB is bcKbf 
declared to be an emeigeacy meesuie and shall lake dSect and be 
in force &om and after its passage and apprt»l ty i)e Mayor or 
ten days after passage if titeMiQcr neither appitxs oorvecesthe 

husul Scpttmbtr 23i 1991 

CYNTHIA LAZARUS. Pitskkm of Council 

Appromd Scptomta- 2S; 1991 





Volume 9 , :.umber 3 

School Security Report 

The How To Newsletter of Accident and Crime Prevention 


Hew Buffalo Schools Upgraded Security To Meet Increase In Student Crime 1 

San Jose's 9-Point Approach To Control Emerging Gang Activity In Schools 2 

San Antonio Fights Gangs, Crime With 'Intervention Officers' 3 

Watch Out For: Tampering With Forced-Air Hand Dryers 4 

Special Report : Violence In Schools: A Time For Concern And Action 5 

See Increased Acceptance Of Delay-Release Hardware For Exit Doors 9 

Bing, Ross Form Business Protection Associates 11 

Safety Incentive Programs — An Update 11 

Watch cut For: Qnphasis On "No Lost-Time" Rewards 13 

Recent Publications And Films 14 

In Brief 15 


An increase in use of weapons and drugs and greater general street violence is mak- 
ing the task of school security more difficult, according to William Jackson , di- 
rector of security for the Buffalo Public Schools , Buffalo, NY. "Overall, we have 
seen a dramatic increase in crime during the last three years, rising higher than 
the national rate." As recently as Thanksgiving of 1992, a school security officer 
was shot and critically wounded. 

Jackson believes that the real problems are out on the streets and that they are be- 
ing carried over into the schools, especially after weekends. "The kids are eifraid, 
so they carry weapons." The problems are increased by the fact that all Buffalo 
high school students and seme elementary students are conveyed by the public transit 
system, including both subways and metro buses, and cpportunities for violence taks 
place after school on the way hone. Last spring after a series of violent inci- 
dents, Jackson was able to win approval to meike a number of improvements in school 
security, including: 

— Two additional school security officers. 

— A policy of strict and consistent enforcement of existing rules and regulations in 
the entire system of 68 schools. 

— The establishment and posting of gun-free eind drug-free zones as mandated under 
federal law. 

— A new 126-hajr training program for all security personnel conducted by the 
Buffalo Police Department. 

— Randan locker searches of high school students, conducted by two available mobile 

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The wounding of six fellow students in September 1992 by a 17 -year-old Amarillo, TX, 
high schooler was just one of a growing number of acts of violence being ccanmitted 
by teenager-s. As previous atrticles and reports in this newsletter have indicated, 
the problem is much more widespread than most persons, even school officials, real- 
ize. And such violence is not limited to big cities or schools with high percent- 
ages of minority stvxlents. In this report, we'll update ycxi on the most recent 
stvxiies of youth violence, and present some suggestions from experts on hcM to pre- 
pare for some difficult tiroes that may lie ahead. 


Kortheaatarn U. Study; Teenager arrests up . 

James Allen Fox , dean. College of Crimiral Justice , Northeasteim University , Boston, 
MA, says youth violence is expected to increase during the next decade cind into the 
next century. "Right now the number of young teens and pre-teens is on the rise. 
So in the 1990s we will be seeing a resurgence in the size of the laost violent pop- 
ulation — high schoolers." A new study by the university's Crime Anailysis Project 
r^jorts that the number of 15-year-olds arrested for murder climbed 217% from 1985 
throi^ 1991. Sixteen-year-olds arrested for murder rose by 158%; 17 -year-olds 
rose by L21%. Arrests of boys 12 and under rose 100%. 

National Survey: Frequent reports of violent incidents . 

A national survey of 546 students ages 13-19 by the Cainp Fire Boys and Girls , Kansas 
City, VD, found that: 

— 83% have personally witnessed students in fistfights. 

— 20% have seen a fellow student pull a knife on soneone. 

— 16% have watched a fellow student strike a teacher. 

— 7% have seen stijdents threatening soneone with a firearm. 

When the 546 students were asked if they thought the violence would get worse, over 
half said yes. "Violence begets violence," says Etoerson Goodwin , director of devel- 
opnent and coranunication for Camp Fire Boys and Girls. The problem will only get 
worse as long as children feel threatened. If they think other children are bring- 
ing weapons to school, they themselves will bring weapons in response to the threat. 

Memphis; Suspensions for gun possession up . 

In Men^-Ls, TN, according to the newspaper USA Today, the number of students sus- 
pended for having guns at Memphis city sciiools doubled in 1991. Over the past five 
years, incidents tripled. During the 1987-88 school year, 86 students were sus- 
pended for carrying guns to school. In 1991, the number was 263. 

Seattle; Easy access to handguns . 

In Seattle, WA, Drs. Charles M. Callahan and Frederick Rivara of the University of 


Washington polled 900 high school juniors in Seattle public schools, 'mey found 
half of all male students felt they had easy access to handguns. The majority said 
they could get guns frcm friends, on the street, or at home. The study also showed 
that 11% cwned a handgun and half of them brought the weapon to school. 

AMA; Gunshot wounds second leading cause of teenage death . 

For the United States as a whole, the American Medical Association reported last 
June that: 

— Gunshot wounds are the second leading cause of death among high-school-age 

— One-third of high school students say they have easy access to handguns. 

— Six percent say they bring handguns to school. 

— Six percent say they actually own handguns. 

— TXiTO percent of these polled say they have fired their handguns at another person. 

FBI; Arrest rates up for blac)c, vhite youths . 

In August 1992, the FBI Uniform Crime Report for the first time included an analysis 
of crimes by juveniles (ages 10-17) . It reported: 

— Hie rate of arrests of juveniles for violent offenses in 1990 was 430 per 100,000, 
a 27% increase over 1980. 

— Hie rate of violent crime among black youth was 1,429 per 100,000 in 1990, a rara 
five times that of white youth. 

— The arrest rate for murder increased 145% among black youths over the decade, 48% 
for whites, 45% for other races. 

— In 1990, almost three of every four ycxithful murderers used a firearm. 


In spite of the "numbers," Carl Bell , executive director of the Comnunity Mental 
Health Courxiil , Oiicago, IL, says he's not convinced. "In order to really know if 
school-age children are becoming more violent, you would have to compare today's vi- 
olence, which I characterize as fighting, stabbing, hitting people with bricks, etc. 
— vdth the violence statistics fron the 1950s, and I know of no study that does 
that." Bell adds that if there is indeed a problem, you have to know wtiere it 
exists in order to solve it. "If ycu focus on poor and under-serviced coraraunities, 
it's easy to see a violence problem that is getting worse, when we know the risk of 
being murdered is l in 27 for poorer people." 

In the Camp Fire Study, 65% of the students surveyed rated drugs as the number one 
cause of violence on the part of their peers. Abuse by parents was rated second by 
49% of the group; wanting to feel in control, 48%; and gang involvement, 47%. Only 
19% felt television was a ma^or contributor to violent behavior. 

What causes handgun violence among youth? Gwen Fitzgerald of the Center to Prevent 
Handgun violence (CPHV) , Washington, DC, says: 


—Easy availability of firearms. "Half the hones in this country contain a 

— Kids carry firearms because they think g\ins are cool. 
— Kids feel the need to protect themselves. 

—A lack of coping skills. "Many kids today seem to react with violence to anything 
that troubles them. If they feel like they've been 'dissed' (disrespected) , they 
react with any violent means necessary to regain that respect." 

The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports study noted single parent families, drugs, and ille- 
gal weapons as possible contributing factors. 


In response to this surge of violence among school-age children, the Center has de- 
veloped an educational program on gun awareness. The STAR (Stxai<^t Talk About 
Risks) program is a pre-kindergarten through 12th grade curriculum supplement, which 
teachers can adapt to various classroom situations. "It involves role playing 
lessons in which children actually get a chance to rehearse behaviors that may be 
lifesaving," says Fitzgerald. "The exercises promote appropriate responses to dan- 
gerous, violent, or even deadly situations." Although many more children are con- 
fronting real violence while traveling to and fron school, the program also ad- 
dresses the media, which brings images of violence to a much greater audience. 

"STAR attempts to make children aware that the violence they see in the media is not 
like real-life violence — guns are not glamorous — and there is a severe price to pay 
when people resort to violence. Kids know movie stars as the cool guys with the 
guns that everybody claps for, but they never get to know the families or friends of 
the people killed. . .they never see a realistic depiction of scroecne really getting 
wounded by gunfire." To enlighten children to the tragedy associated with this type 
of violence, CEHV sends a videotape with the curriculum, which includes interviews 
with teens who have been wounded by guns. During the interviews, the teens talk 
"straightup" about how gunshots have scarred them physically and emotionally. 

Hie National Rifle Association , Washington, DC, says it has a similar program 
planned. However, implementation is still a year away. THe group currently runs an 
accident prevention program for grades pre-kindergarten through sixth, tut Laurie 
Tumelle , assistant manager of the program, admits that "we definitely see a need 
for an older-level program." 

I^e Illinois State Police , Macorb, has developed the School Security Facilitator 
Training program, admed at helping school officials confront the problem. "Our pro- 
gram makes sure that we have school officials trained in establishing a plan of 
action in response to what has become a very serious problem in recent years," says 
S enior Master Trooper Jim L. Owens . The program consists of a six-step process, 
which includes: 

Creating an awareness. "Vfe want the administrators to first be aware of potential 

and ongoing problems in the comiunity . " 

—Formulating and implementing a school policy regarding school violence. 

—Soliciting conmunity participation and involvenent. "TTiis has to be a joint ef- 
fort including influential people who can keep the interest level high." 


— Preparing for all levels of violent behavior. "You have to practice response 
techniques in every area until your responses are familiar and automatic." Tlie 
levels of violence include potential, urgent, and emergent, while different types of 
violence include incident, crisis, and disaster. 

— Inspecting the facility for security vulnerabilities. "But make certain hazards 
ctre not created following the process, such cis blocking fire escape routes, etc." 

— Establishing a follcw-up plan of action, such as victim assistance. "The effects 
of a crisis often reverberate long after the incident itself is over." 


Jack M. Pollock , retired principal of Abraham Lincoln High School , Brooklyn, NY, was 
in the front line when it came to confronting violence in schools. In a letter to 
the editor of the New York Times, Pollock suggests better comraunication as a means 
to preverrtion. "One of the things I've discovered (after his 43 years as an educa- 
tor) is that kids will tell you who's carrying weapons — it's incredible — if a kid 
feels confident that the school will not divulge names, or information that's given, 
for their cwn self protection, they will tell you," says Pollock. "I've had kids, 
over the years, cane and tell me 'So-and-so has a knife in his bag' or 'So-and-so 
has a gun. ' And, most of the time, what the kids told us was true, because they 
knew — the kids knew more than the teachers know." 

To enccurage more children tc come forward. Pollock has proposed giving those who do 
a reward. "If kids knew, for information leading to the confiscation of a gun, that 
they can get a reward and their names will not be revealed, that may result in more 
confiscation of guns and weapons on campus. At the very least, it will put the gun 
toters on notice that they may be reported by their own classmates." Once the 
sources have been cannuracated, Pollock suggests following up with random searches 
in school, as well as on the routes children take to and frcm school. He says the 
civil libertarians will surely fight this approach, but something has to be done. 

"Schools in New York City are being conpared to BeirutI We have to protect the 
Self ety of the general public and if these kids give police legitimate grounds for 
suspicion, law enforcement officials have a right to protect society; that's what we 
pay them for." 

Fox of Northeastem agrees that strong measures have to be taken to remove weapons 
frcm schools, but defines metal detectors and increased security as "band-aid" solu- 
tions. He says that nurturing, intensive guidance, and interactive support are key 
strategies necessary for long-term results. "I would like to see more after-school 
programs with charismatic instructors and good quality recreational equipment, which 
would develop an atmosphere in which kids would want to be. If we can keep kids 
busy, and cut down on the idleness in their lives, I think that we will have a posi- 
tive inpact." 

For further information, contact: 

Gwen Pitzgerald, spokesperson. Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, 1225 
Bye St., NW, Suite 1150, Washington, DC 20005 — 202/289-7319. 

Laurie Turnella, assistant manager, Eddie Eagle Department, National Ri- 
fle Association, 1600 Rhode Island Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20036--1- 


Dr. Jaclc Polloclc, retired principal of Abrahajn Lincoln High School, 1527 
East 3rd St., Brooklyn, NY 11230 — 718/372-5474. 

Emerson Goodwin, director of development and communication, Cajnp Fire 
Boys and Girls, 4601 Madison Ave., Kansas City, MO 64112 — 816/756-1950. 

James Allen ?ox, dean. College of Criminal Justice at Northeastern Uni- 
versity, 360 Huntington Ave., Boston, MA 02115 — 617/437-3327. 

Carl Bell, executive director. Community Mental Health Council, 8704 
South Constance, Chicago, IL 60617 — 312/734-4033. 

Jim L. Owens, senior master trooper, Illinois State Police District 14, 
PO Box 483, Macomb, IL 61455 — 309/833-2141. 


A security device that conflicts with fire safety codes — delay-release door hard- 
ware — has been available for more than 10 years, but is just now becoming popular, 
according to consultants and hardware makers. The hardware, described in Section 5- 
2.1.6 of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) Life and Safety Cede 101, 
autanatically unlocks doors equipped with the magnetic lock system after a 15- or 
30-secand delay when an anergency release button is pressed. In case of pcwer fail- 
ure or activation of sprinklers or smoke detectors, the doors unlock for immediate 
egress. When permitted by local codes, use of the devices is restricted to build- 
ings that are ccsupletely protected by supervised automatic sprinkler systems car au- 
tanatic fire detection systems. They are forbidden for use on the main entrance/ 
exit doors of assembly occupancies, defined as places vAiere a relatively large group 
of people gather for dining or recreation, such as restaurants or theaters. 

Delay-release systems are activated when scroeone desiring to exit pushes a release 
bar on the door. That initiates a process that signals a central monitor station, 
can sound a local alarm if desired, and releases the lock after the pre-determined 
period. A notice posted on the door instructs the person desiring to exit to keep 
pressure on the bar until the door releases after the time delay, or states that the 
door will open cifter a specified number of seconds. 

Professional Engineer William Koffel , president of Koffel Associates Inc. , Ellicott 
City, MD, an independent fire protection engineering firm, says fire and safety 
codes vary in different parts of the country, but they cill specify that nothing can 
impede egress from a building. In order to use delay-release systems, an exception 
has to be written into the code. "The Life Safety Code has a restriction that in 
health care occupancy you may have no more than one such device in the egress path." 
For example, the system could be installed on the door into a stairway or on the 
door out of the stairway, but not on both. "Sane codes are very restrictive, speci- 
fying that they can only be installed in office-type environments, while others per- 
mit it in education, mercantile, office, or institutional facilities." 

The Uniform Building Code , in cammon use in western states, is the most restrictive 
regarding use of delay-release devices, alleging them only in office buildings and 
in a few other limited applications. ^fFPA's Life Safety Code is more liberal. Kof- 
fel doubts that a uniform code for the entire country will ccme about in the fore- 
seeable future. Presently there are four maior organizations that publish model 
codes that can be adopted, with or without modification, by local authorities. The 
NFPA promulgates a model fire code. Other organizations publishing model codes 



^ews Release 


2 100 Gardiner Lane. Louisv.ilc. KY4n:05-:9 . (502M<l.jioo F^X S0:-J59.;noo 



The lyrics orinied in this News Release 
may be olfensive to some readers. 

A rao group. Body Coun;. featuring lce-7. 
has recorded s lewd, demeanlnfl. lascivious song 
called "Coo Killer" on Its album "Body Count". 
The lyrics are disgusting, vulgar, and advocate 
violence against police officers. 

Warnar Brothers has distributed this 

recording. They are the same company that 

iducos videos, movies, and owns Interest in 

amusement parks indudinfl Six Flags. The lyrics 

contained in the recordino are as follows: 

I got my bisck sftH on. 
I oot my black gloves on. 
I got my ski mask on. 

This shit's been too long. 
I got my twolvo gsuge sawod off. 
I got my haadllghls turned off. 
I'm 'bout to bust some shots off. 
I'm 'bout to dust some cops off. 


COP KILLER, It's better you than mg. 

COP KILLER, fuck police brutality! 

COP KILLER, I know your 

family's grievln' 

(Fuck 'emil 

COP KILLER, but tonight we get even. 

I got my brain on hype. 

Tonlght'll be your night. 

I got this long-ossed knife, 

and your neck looks /usi right. 

My adrenaline 's pumpin '. 

I got my sieroo bumpin' 

I'm 'bout to kill me somciltln: 

A pig stopped me for nuihln'l 


OIS.- Ol£, DIE PIG, Dim 



9 2-148 



FUCK THE POLICE, for Darryl Gales. 

FUCK THE EOLICE. for Rodney King. 

FUCK THE f-OLlC£, for my dead homles 

FUCK THE POLICE, for your freedom. 

FUCK THE KILICE, don't be B pussy. 

FUCK THE fOLICE, hive some mulhafuck. 

FUCK THE fVLICE, Sing along. 


I'm a muthafuckln' COP KILLERI 

COP KILLER! (repeat) 

The National FOP urges 811 FOP loagos. 
associates and auxiliaries and their membership 
to write letters of protest to the President ot Time 
Warner/Warnef Brothers Records. 

Demand that tnis recording tie pulled 
from tho market, from record stores, and Institute 
a Povcott ot all Time Warner products and 
productions until such time this recording Is 

Police officers are urged to show our 
sincere concern about deplorable lyrics being 
used that encourage the "Killing of Police 
OlUcers' and tarnish the minds ot our youth 
while police officers across the nation try to 
present a Dosltlve Image and be a role model. 


Send letters to: 

Lenny Waronker, President 

Time WarnerAA/amer Bros. Records 

3300 Warne' Blvd. 

Ou'bank. CA 91B05 


Contact; f^aloh Orms, National Secretary 
1-800-451-2711 or Dewey R, Stokes. 

National Pre.-:ldent, 514-221-0130 

8A!.iiMi;kt COUNTY ioa';r\ 



Wildlife Laws of Ohio 

Each holder of a pcrmil engaged in collecting such wild 
animals shall carry his penmit with him at all limes and 
shall exhibit it upon demand to any game protector, consta- 
ble, sheriff, deputy sheriff, or police officer, or the owner or 
person in lawful control of the land upon which he is 
collecting, or to any person. Failure to so carry or exhibit 
such permit constitutes an offense under this section. 

Each permit holder shall keep a daily record of all speci- 
mens collected under said permit and the disposition of 
such specimens and shall exhibit said daily record to any 
ofllciai of the division upon demand. 

Each such penmit shall remain in effect for one year 
from the dale of issue, unless it is sooner revolted by the 
chief, and all permits in effect on September I. 1951. are 
hereby canceled and void as of January I. 1952 

All moneys received as fees for the issuance of such 
scientific collecting permit shall be transmitted to the direc- 
tor of natural resources to be paid into the state treasury to 
the credit of the fund created by section 1533.15 of the 
Revised Code. 

HISTORY: 1988 S 256. eff. 7-20-88 
127 V 670; 1953 H I; GC 1409 

Penalty: 1533 99(,E) 


Scientific collecting pcrmil regulations. OAC 1501:31-25-01 


OJur 3d: 3. Animals § I 1 : 50. Fish and Game § 23. 24. 31 


I NP(NS) 133. 14 D 156 (CP. Builcr 1903). Filion v State. 
Where the stale offers no proof that defendants did not have a 
pcrmil from the fish and game president as provided by RS 6960a 
(now RC 1533.08). there is no error since this is a matter of 
defense which must, to avail the defendant, be proven by him in a 
prosecution under RS 6960 (now RC 1533 07). 

1533.09 Annual report of operations under scien- 
tific collecting permit; revocation and forfeiture of per- 

Before the first day of February of each year, each 
scientific collecting permit holder shall file with the divi- 
sion of wildlife a written report of his operations under the 
pemiil and the disposition of the specimens collected dur- 
ing the preceding calendar year on report blanks furnished 
by the chief of the division of wildlife. Failure to file said 

repon shall cause said permit to he forfeited as of the first 
day of February. Permits are not transferable No permit 
holder or person collecting wild animals under color of 
such a permit shall take, possess, or transport such wild 
animals for any purpose not specified in said permit. 

Conviction of a violation of this section, failure to carry 
said permit with him and exhibit it to any person requesting 
to see it, or the violation of any other law concerning wild 
animals constitutes a revocation and forfeiture of the permit 
involved. The former permit holder shall not be entitled to 
another permit for a period of one year from the date of 
said conviction. 

HISTORY; 1953 H I, eff. 10-1-53 
GC 1409-1. 1409-2 

Scieniific collecting permit regulations. OAC 1501:31-25-01 

OJur 3d: 3. Animals 5 11: 50. Fish and Game § 23. 37 


'iS33.1(P Hunting licenses; tourist's small game 
hunting license; evidence of previous license or hunter 
safety training 

Except as provided in this section or division (A) of 
section 1533.12 of the Revised Code, no person shall hunt 
any wild bird or wild quadruped without a hunting license. 
Each day that any person hunts within the state without 
procuring such a license constitutes a separate offense. 
Every applicant for a hunting license who is a resident of 
the state and age sixteen or over shall procure a resident 
hunting license? the fee for which shall be eleven dollars, 
unless the rules adopted under division (B) of section 
1533.12 of the Revised Code provide for issuance of a 
resident hunting license to the applicant free of charge 
Every applicant who is a resident of the state and under the 
age of sixteen years shall procure a special youth hunting 
license, the fee for which shall be one-half of the regular 
hunting license fee rounded up to the next highest dollar 
The owner and the children of llic owner of lands in the 
slate may hunt thereon wiihoul a hunting license. The ten- 
ant or manager and children of the tenant or manager, 
residing on lands in the state, may hunt thereon without a 
hunting license. Every applicant lor a hunting license who 


IS a nonrcMdeni of ihc slale shall procure a nonrcsidcnl 
hunting license. Ihe fee for which shall be eiphly dollars, 
unless ihc applicani is a resident of a siale Ihal is a pany lo 
an agrcemcni under section 15.13.91 of the Revised Code, 
in which Ihe fee shall be eleven dollars. 

The chief of the division of wildlife in the department of 
natural resources may issue a tourist's small game hunting 
license expiring three days from the effective dale of the 
license to a nonresident of the state, the fee for which shall 
be twenty dollars. No person shall take or possess any 
animal that is not small game while possessing only a 
tourist's small game hunting license A tourist's small 
game hunting license does not authorize the taking or pos- 
sessing of ducks, geese, or brant without having obtained, 
in addition to the tourist's small game hunting license, a 
wetlands habitat stamp as provided in section 1533 I 12 of 
the Revised Code. 

No person shall procure or attempt to procure a hunting 
license by fraud, deceit, misrepresentation, or any false 

TTiis section docs not authorize the taking and possess- 
ing of deer or wild turkeys without first having obtained, in 
addition to Ihe hunting license required by this section, a 
special deer or wild turkey permit as provided in section 
1533.1 1 of the Revised Code or the taking and possessing 
of ducks, geese, or brant without first having obtained, in 
addition to the hunting license required by this section, a 
wetlands habitat stamp as provided in section 1533.1 12 of 
the Revised Code 

This section does not authorize Ihe trapping of fur-bear- 
ing animals without first having obtained, in addition to a 
hunting license required by this section, a trapping permit 
as provided in section 1533.1 1 1 of the Revised Code. 

No huiiting license shall be issued unless the applicant 
presents lo the agent authorized lo issue the license a previ- 
ously held hunting license or evidence of having held such 
license in content and manner approved by the chief of the 
division of wildlife, a certificate of competency issued 
upon completion of a hunter safely and conservation course, 
approved by the chief, or evidence of equivalent training in 
content and manner approved by the chief. 

-fNopirson shall issue a hunting license to any person 
who fails to present the evidence required by this section. 
No person shall purchase or obtain a hunting license wiih- 
out presenting lo the issuing agent the evidence required by 
(his section. Issuance of a hunting license in violation of the. 
requirements of this section is an offense by both the pur- 
chaser of the illegally obtained hunting license and Lhe 
clerk or agent who issued the hunting license. Any hunting 
license issued in violation of this section is void. 

The chief, with approval of the wildlife council, shall by 
rule prescribe a hunter safety and conservation course for 
firsi-lirhe htiiitlngMicerise buyefs and for volunleer instruc- 
tors. The course shall consist of subjeitS includlng4 but not 
limited to, hunter safely and health, use of hunting imple- 
ments, hunting tradition and ethics, the hunter and conser- 
vation, and the law. relating lo hunting. Authorized perion- 
ncl of the division or volunleer instructors approved by lhe 
chief shall conduct such courses with such frequency and at, 
such locations throughout the slate as to meet reasonably 
the needs of license applicants. The chief shall issue a 
certificate of competency to each person who successfully 
completes the course and passes an examination prescribed 
by Ihe chief 

HISTORY: 1991 H 298. eff 7-26-91 

1989 Hill: 1986 H 848: 1981 H 371; 1978 S 419; 
1975 S 243. H 165; 1973 H 399; 1971 H 963: 132 v H 
243; 130 v S 310; 127 v 113; 1953 H 1; GC 1431 

Penalty: 1533.99(E) 


Baldwin's Ohio Township Law. Text 65 08 


Hunlcr safely and conservation student and insirucior regula- 
tions. OAC 1501:31-29-01 


OJur 3d: 50. Fish and Game § 23. 37 
.Am Jur 2d: 35. Fish and Game § 45 

Applicability of state fishing license laws or other public regu- 
lations to fishing in private lake or pond. 15 ALR2d 754 


23 OS(3d) 35. 23 GBR 30. 490 NE(2d) 612 (1986). Slate v 
McDaniel. OAC 1501:31-15- 1 1(H) and 1.501:31-15-11(1). which 
allow landowners but not tenants lo obtain antlcrless deer hunting 
permits, are invalid because they conflici wuh RC 1533 10 and 
1533.1 1. which require equal treatment of landowners and icnanlS- 

1 Abs 407. 22 LR 371 (App. Pike 1923). Fenncr v Stale. 
License requirements of this section apply only to those who hunt 
for sport, pleasure or profit, not one who pursues and kills a fur 
bearing animal which has become a nuisance b)' causing propeny 

I Abs 407. 22 LR 371 (App. Pike 1923). Fcnner v Slate Foxes 
which have killed a person's lambs or chickens may be destroyed 
by him without a license on the land of a neighbor who orally 
requests it. 

4.16 US 371. 98 SCl 1852. 56 LEd(2d) 354 (1978). Baldwin v 
Montana Fish 4 Game Comm A slate need nol have the same or 


Senator Kohl. That is a very good statement, Mr. Stokes. We ap- 
preciate your being here. 
Dr. Haller? 


Dr. Haller. Senator Kohl, Senator Cohen, ladies and gentlemen, 
I am very pleased to be here to speak on behalf of children as a 
pediatric surgeon. I am also the director of our Maryland State Pe- 
diatric Trauma Center, and so I am on the receiving end of too 
many children with serious injuries, including handgun injuries. 

I believe that we must, as physicians and nurses and other 
health care providers, come to grips with the fact that this is a 
major public health problem. For too long, we have said it is a 
problem of society, it is a problem of the playgrounds, et cetera. 
But I think we must begin looking at this as a disease of our mod- 
ern society, and in so doing we can begin to approach it in the 
same way we approach other diseases that are killing our children. 

I think we need to emphasize that as we see these tragic inju- 
ries — killed, injured and crippled children — they are shot by weap- 
ons which are not needed for legitimate hunting and sporting pur- 
poses, and are in the hands of irresponsible adults and may fall in 
the hands of innocent children and young teenagers. That I see as 
the main public health problem. 

This last year in Maryland, I took care of a 4-year-old boy who 
was shot in his grandmother's dining room on a Sunday by a stray 
bullet. He came in through our emergency medical system for chil- 
dren, was operated upon brilliantly by one of our neurosurgeons, 
and fortunately survived in spite of that bullet being in his brain. 

A 12-year-old girl just 3 months ago was talking with her friend 
at dusk over her back fence when she heard some popping noises, 
realized it might be guns, turned to run £ind was shot in the shoul- 
der. Her father, who is the president of that PTA, has eloquently 
testified about the terror that that has brought to the family and 
all members of her class, so that she is fearful now of even going 
outside in the evening. 

A 7-year-old boy was taking his bath when his 16 year old broth- 
er came home with a handgun, and he said, let me see that. Bill, 
and he handed it to him to look at in the bathtub and he shot him- 
self in the abdomen and died in our hospital with a liver injury. 

These are the kinds of injuries that we are seeing in increasing 
numbers at the same time that we have been trying to address 
other injuries in children, and I would point out to you that the 
main cause of death in the United States of children is injuries. Of 
those injuries, the main cause is motor vehicle-related injuries, but 
in the State of Maryland this last year, for the first time, handgun- 
related injuries were responsible for the deaths of more children 
than motor vehicle-related injuries. 

The increase is what is coming so vividly to our attention as phy- 
sicians and nurses, and it is for that reason that we are speaking 
out and saying we must address this as a public health problem 
in our society. 

This last year in Maryland, there were 26 children who were 
killed as a result of handgun injuries. There were 40 children other 
than those who were hospitalized in our children's center with 


handgun injuries. I would submit to you, if 26 children died of po- 
liomyelitis this last year, or if 40 children drowned, there would be 
a public outcry. There would be question about the quality of medi- 
cal care available in our society. Yet, this is the toll of handgun in- 
juries in our State. 

I am in strong support of your bill. Senator Kohl. I believe you 
should add one other proviso, and that is that there should also be 
the prohibition of the availability of handguns to juveniles. That is 
more difficult, but we do have a new law in Maryland which makes 
it illegal to have a handgun in the home if a child is injured. There 
is a stronger penalty under those circumstances. Whether that 
could be included or not in a Federal bill, I don't know, but I ap- 
plaud your efforts. I think all of us in the medical profession who 
care for these children want to stand up and be heard. 

Children are not felons, they are not criminals. They are caught 
in the crossfire and are innocent victims, and these handgun inju- 
ries are not accidents. They are absolutely predictable in the cir- 
cumstances in which children find themselves. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Haller follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Dr. J. Alex Haller, Jr. 

I am a Pediatric Surgeon in the Johns Hopkins Children's Center who is respon- 
sible for the resuscitation and treatment of children in Maryland who have life 
threatening injuries and are brought to our Regional Trauma Center for Children. 
I and my staff, especially trauma surgeons and emergency room physicians, are the 
ones who treat children who are the victims of handgun injuries as a part of the 
violence in our school yards, playgrounds, and homes. We, unfortunately, see the 
tragic results of killed, injured and crippled children who are shot by weapons which 
are not needed for legitimate hunting and sporting purposes and are in the hands 
of irresponsible adults and may fall in the hands or innocent children and young 

I see this as a major public health problem for children because it is truly a dis- 
ease of our modern society which impacts upon the innocent lives of our children. 
As physicians, I think we have been too slow in recognizing the important impact 
on the health of our children in the United States from handgun injuries and have 
not stepped forward in a leadership role to emphasize the need for educational, pre- 
vention, handgun control, as well as bettersystems of emergency ceire for children, 
including intensive care and rehabilitation. We have done a fairly good job as physi- 
cians and nurses in organizing our emergency rooms, our intensive care units and 
inpatient facilities to treat children who have been seriously injured by motor vehi- 
cle accidents, falls, and handgun injuries but we have done little to address preven- 
tion of the handgun injuries. We have done a lot to decrease the injuries from motor 
vehicle crashes, including child restraiints and seat belts and better education of 
children as they cross streets to and from schools and homes. We have done a rea- 
sonable job in preventing serious falls particularly from our high rise buildings and 
tenant houses during the summertime with better construction and window safety 
features. What have we dome to address injury control fromhandguns? 

Last year in Maryland, I helped take care of 40 children who were admitted to 
the Johns Hopkins Children's Cfenter with handgun injuries, two of whom died and 
more than a dozen are continuing in rehabilitation as a result of crippling injuries 
from those handguns. During that same time, 26 children died from firearm injuries 
in Maryland. For the first time in our travuna registry,we have seen handgun 
deaths increase to the point where they are greater in number than deaths from 
motor vehicle injuries in the state of Maryland. If 40 children had been admitted 
to the Johns Hopkins Children's Center with poliomyelitis or 26 children had died 
from drowning, there would have been a public outcry from the medical community 
and from society for better understanding of this disease, both prevention and treat- 
ment. This is the death toll from handgun injuries in the state of Maryland. 

During this time (1992) I took care of a 4-year-old boy who was hit by a stray 
handgun bullet in his grandmother's dining room and was brought unconscious to 
our Children's Center where he fortunately recovered after a brilliant neurosurgical 


procedure removed the bullet from his brain. A few months later, I participated in 
the care of a 12-year-old girl who was talking over the back fence near her home 
to her girlfriend when she heard gunshots and then was struck in the right shoulder 
when she was running away from the noise. Fortunately, she did not receive any 
permanent damage after she was treated and the wound healed. 

Handgun, especially those with multiple shots, are an unacceptable danger to our 
children because of their potential to shoot a large number of people in a very short 
time. More people are at risk because the bullets can be discharged in a shorter pe- 
riod of time. "Bystanders" are more likely to be shot. Children find handguns in the 
home and if loaded and unprotected they are thought to be toys and can be dis- 
charged, injuring their friends and other members of the family. 

Children are not felons. They are not criminals. They are innocent victims in a 
violent society in their playgrounds, school yards and homes. It is of increasingly 
grave concern to us as physicians that children are experiencing a larger number 
of these bystander shootings. It was bad enough when children were injured with 
gunshot wounds in and near their homes in unintentionalincidence but where the 
victim knew the person pulling the trigger. Now, more and more children are felled 
in their home and school environment with a scatter of bullets meant for others, 
especially in drug related incidences. 

Teenage suicide is on the increase; and in one recant study, 88 percent of those 
suicides resulted from the use of handguns in the home. As physicians, we can treat 
attempted suicide victims who take poisons and overmedication by pumping their 
stomachs. There is little that can be done if a handgun bullet has destroyed the 
child's brain. 

I believe that Senator Herbert Kohl's proposed Bill to prohibit the possession of 
handguns or ammunition by a juvenile is one important step in the right direction. 
I would only add that it should also address the prohibition of the availability of 
handguns to a juvenile as well as the possession of a handgun or ammunition and 
the private transfer of the handgun or ammunition. Thank you very much for this 
opportunity to speak out as a physician, father, and grandfather of 11 grand- 
children, to focus on this major public health issue for children as a part of the vio- 
lence in society. Handgun injuries are not accidents. They are predictable and they 
are a disease of our modern society. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you, Dr. Haller. 

Ms. Hatton, I read somewhere that Howard Fuller, who is the 
superintendent of public schools in Milwaukee, has already sent 17 
condolence letters this year to kids who have been killed in school, 
mostly by firearms, or in and around school. Is that true? 

Ms. Hatton. Yes, Senator Kohl. On June 1st at our principal's 
meeting. Dr. Fuller did give that statement to us that he felt very 
bad as the superintendent of over 99,000 children that he had to 
send out 17 letter of condolences for deaths related to handgun 
usage. One letter could not be delivered because there was no ad- 
dress that we could find a responsible adult. 

Senator KOHL. When you think about your school and your job 
as a teacher and as a principal in our community where you live 
and I live, with respect to the kids and their education, their well- 
being, how they are growing up and the values that they have, are 
there many things more important that we could do than to get 
handguns out of their possession, out of their lives? 

Ms. Hatton. I believe there are some things we could do in con- 
junction with what you are proposing, and that is the economic im- 
pact would certainly be to have opportunities for employment, im- 
proved education, because if we have more dollars, we can improve 
what we do. Many of our dollars and fiscal allocations are allocated 
for things that are noninstructional. 

We need to have support centers, community agency support, 
and I truly believe that entitlement programs have an impact on 
giving children and their parents more to do than to have idle time 


where, as the doctor referred to, incidents occur that are very pre- 

Senator Kohl. All right, thank you very much. Mr. Stokes, have 
you spoken with any gun manufacturers about law enforcement's 
efforts to control the proliferation of firearms, and what do they 
think about waiting periods, for example? 

Mr. Stokes. Senator, I have talked to some gun dealers and 
some manufacturers that have pointed out one staggering fact to 
me, and it is that it is reported by them, at least, back to me that 
taking California, for instance, they have a 15-day waiting period, 
and right now gun manufacturers are having a tough time keeping 
up with the orders in California alone. So I don't think a waiting 
period impedes the manufacture of firearms, and I believe that 
manufacturers, if given the opportunity, who would speak out di- 
rectly to the Senate or to the Congress would tell you that they 
don't want their weapons used illegally and they don't want them 
misused. I believe that the ones that I have spoken to would sup- 
port, and do support a waiting period for the purchase of a hand- 
gun or any gun. 

Senator KOHL. How would they feel about this legislation? How 
would they feel about Senator Chafee's legislation? 

Mr. Stokes. I don't think they support Senator Chafee's legisla- 
tion. Your legislation, I don't think they have read because when 
I had these discussions some time ago I was even unaware of the 
proposed legislation. So I don't know how they would exactly feel 
about your legislation at this point. I would be happy to share it 
with some of them and let them see it. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you. Dr. Haller, you refer to it as a disease 
and we should treat it like other diseases. I thought that was very 
intriguing. I don't have any particular comment to make, but I 
think you are absolutely on the mark. It is a disease in our soci- 
ety — kids and guns, killing other kids, ruining their own lives, hav- 
ing a terribly negative effect on the values in our society. 

It is a disease of the worst sort, and there is no other way to 
treat the disease except to get rid of the guns. I mean, I think that 
is what you are saying. Any other effort is going to fall short of 
treating that disease that you describe. Is that what you are say- 

Dr. Haller. Well, I am not necessarily advocating removal of all 

handguns from people. 

Senator KOHL. No, from kids. 

Dr. Haller. But from kids, because I think responsible individ- 
uals can use firearms, and I grew up believing that. But I think 
we must have children protected from an environment that has 
loaded handguns in it. At the present time, there is no such provi- 
sion made in most of our homes, schoolyards, and schools, as we 
have heard this morning and as we have all read in the news- 

Senator KOHL. What do you think society would think of our 
Government here in Washington if we weren't able to pass and 
then see to it that we enforce a law as simple as no guns for kids? 
What would the people out there who send us to Washington think 
if we weren't able to pass a law like that? What do you think? 


Dr. Haller. I would use the word "irresponsible" of our legisla- 
tors if that were not passed, and I feel the same way and I believe 
most members of the NRA feel the same way, that their children 
and their grandchildren must be protected. They may have dif- 
ferent approaches to trying to do it, but together we should be able 
to come up with some reasonable type of legislation and control be- 
cause, with the addition of drugs to this society, the availability of 
handguns then has no responsibility because then the young peo- 
ple's minds are altered and any gun available is going to be used 
in a way that is predictable. 

Senator KoHL. Senator Cohen? 

Senator COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was going to follow 
up that question, Dr. Haller, with the observation that we can pass 
a law. Enforcing it is an entirely different matter. We have laws 
prohibiting the possession of cocaine or crack or heroin. It is illegal 
to possess or to use those drugs. Yet we are drowning in drugs in 
this country. So the mere passing of a law doesn't necessarily mean 
it is going to cure the problem. 

Mr. Stokes, I think you would probably agree that the mere pas- 
sage of a law that will ban the sale or the possession by juveniles 
of either handguns or ultimately any gun isn't going to be nec- 
essarily the ultimate solution because there will be a black market 
for firearms, won't there? 

Mr. Stokes. I think that a lot of the guns that are illegally used 
are obtained off the black market or stolen. But why do minors con- 
tained within the scope of this legislation under 18 — why do they 
need handguns? I think that is what we have got to ask. Then we 
have got to say to the parents, your child doesn't need a handgun. 
And if you have got a handgun, why wouldn't you spend $6, $8, $10 
for a lock, lock it up, or put a lock through it? Why not teach gun 
safety and teach the results of illegally using that gun or touching 
that gun? 

When you illegally use that gun, as one of the previous 
testimoneys related to, the impact of the judicial system must be 
swift, but it also must be strong and it must be determined to carry 
out the sentence of the court and the jury and not let them go. We 
see it right now in this country, in Texas, another leading State 
where more people were killed with firearms last year than in 
automobile accidents. The impact on our hospital care in this coun- 
try and the rehabilitation of gunshot wounds — all these things 
come into play. 

When the average American citizen sits out there and says, well, 
how does this impact me, look at your auto insurance, your busi- 
ness insurance, your homeowners insurance and your hospital in- 
surance. It directly impacts every middle American, every Amer- 
ican across the spectrum. 

So we have got to look at it and say let us pass a law that is 
enforceable and, from the statistics of the Harris poll, has the gen- 
eral support of the country right now, and stop these violent acts 
that are occurring, and educate. 

Senator COHEN. Let me go on a little bit further. I agree with 
what you are saying at this point, but let me switch quickly to Ms. 
Hatton. What do you do when you find one of your students in pos- 

75-909 0-94-3 


session of a handgun? Do you call the parents? Is it automatic ex- 
pulsion? What action do you take? 

Ms. Hatton. First of all, the action is imperative. We call the 
Milwaukee Police Department, and if it is on a bus, if it is a county 
bus, we call the Milwaukee County Sheriffs to assist in the holding 
of this person or retrieval of the gun itself. 

The principal's job is, first of all, to obtain information. If a per- 
son has reported this gun in a locker, a locker search can be done 
and conducted. We then go to the locker. As the principal, I will 
take an assistant principal with me and a security person. I do not 
have to ask the child to open the locker. We have a documented 
statement that says these lockers belong to the Milwaukee public 


Upon doing that, there is what is called due process in our school 
for children to have a hearing through Student Services Division, 
where a preliminary expulsion hearing is given to the child, his 
parent or significant other, and the principal takes the case with 
the district attorney representing the principal in this preliminary 
hearing. That is then advanced if, given credence, a gun was in 
possession on school property or within the school. 

After that, there are two separate management tiers to this. The 
school has its process and the public has its process through the 
law enforcement agencies. Our expulsion policy, though, is not 
what we as adults in this room know expulsion to be. Expulsion, 
in my mind, has always been a when a child is excluded from edu- 
cation totally. In Milwaukee public schools, our children are ex- 
cluded usually to an alternative site that is managed and finan- 
cially offered by the public schools and the taxpayers. 

Senator COHEN. Let me ask you a question. I have a number I 
want to ask, but I want to yield to our colleague who has just 
joined us. What do you feel about the use of metal detectors in 
schools? I know that it is very controversial. When Senator Kohl 
and Senator Chafee point out that anywhere from 100,000 to 
130,000 students each day carry a handgun to school, it seems to 
me that it requires some pretty strong reaction. What is your reac- 
tion to the proposal of having metal detectors where there is a 
problem of weapons being brought into the school? 

The ACLU has challenged that, number one, on constitutional 
grounds. They also, I would assume, take the position that it may 
be racially motivated, and that we concentrate on schools that may 
have a high minority population. What is your reaction, Mr. 
Stokes, Dr. Haller? Is that something we should pursue? 

Ms. Hatton. Personally, I don't like it as a person, but as a pro- 
fessional I think we have to look at measures to ensure safety for 
those people who enter the portals of that particular public build- 
ing. We need to challenge the ACLU and any other group who 
wishes to challenge this based on ideologies that talk about dis- 
crimination. We would not be unfair in our school district of par- 
ticularly singling out any one group or the other. If anything, our 
business is to purport that we are ensuring safety by excluding 
those who may bear arms. 

Senator COHEN. Mr. Stokes? 

Mr. Stokes. I think that, of course, any type of security or going 
through a metal detector, I think, deters from the educational at- 


mosphere and it impedes some students, or the ACLU may think 
it is an infringement. But at the same time, what about the guar- 
anteeing of the safety of those children in an environment where 
they can safely learn and don't have to worry about it? 

We have incidents that I point out in this book where the teacher 
was teaching in the classroom and a student's shots were entered 
in the classroom from the housing project next door. I have a 4- 
year-old in Chicago going across to go to a Head Start program 
that was gunned down crossing a 40-yard section. 

So is it necessary? Maybe 40 years ago it wasn't. Today, metal 
detectors are probably an acceptable practice to ensure the safety 
of the students and the teachers in the classroom so they can teach 
in an environment where they are free from a threat. That is a said 
fact, but that is it until we do pass some legislation that ensures 
that those weapons are not going to be illegally used or taken to 
a school. That is why we pass laws on a local level right now that 
some are opposed to, letting cities and States pass separate laws 
saying that guns should not enter the school area, that it is a 
school safety zone for that. 

Senator Cohen. I was just going to ask you which do you think 
would have the most immediate short-term beneficial impact. I 
have indicated before I think this may be an important step to 
take, but it is not going to resolve the issue. 

I think you have indicated, Mr. Stokes, that we have got to per- 
suade children not to carry firearms by means of swift and harsh 
punishment for those who do; educational programs or conflict res- 
olution training in schools; and public service announcements by 
more popular music and television idols of the day. You mentioned 
the Ice T situation. I was watching this morning's news and one 
of the young men who was accused of murdering a police officer is 
now citing the music from that particular rap song, saying it in- 
spired him to go out and commit that particular murder. 

So this, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, is a complement 
to the hearing we had yesterday in terms of a level of violence that 
has become acceptable or encouraged through music, through tele- 
vision, through all facets of our society. We have raised the level 
of tolerable violence. 

Senator Moynihan wrote an article some time ago. I think the 
title was "Defining Deviancy Down." The essence of that article 
was that we have redefined what we consider unacceptable or vio- 
lent behavior. The murders of the St. Valentine's Massacre in- 
volved three or four individuals and made international news on 
several occasions. It wouldn't make the fourth page of the metro 
section of this town's paper today. 

We have defined deviant behavior down in a way that what was 
once unacceptable today is quite acceptable, and we have got to 
change that attitude. It is not only the guns, although the guns are 
part of it. It has to do with the drug culture. It has to do with 
music. It has to do with entertainment and sports, as I indicated 
before, in terms of what we reward in way of behavior. 

Something has to be done about changing this society of ours to 
make it more humane and less violent, and that is not going to be 
accomplished simply by passing a law to take guns out of the 
schools, away from the hands of kids. That isn't going to do it be- 


cause there will be a black market. They will continue to engage 
in violent behavior unless we find ways to deal with that. I think 
education is going to be a key more and more in terms of control- 
ling the flood tide of drugs that is overwhelming this country, and 
rebuilding the family units which have been destroyed over the 
decades. All of that really is at the heart of this country's problems. 

Mr. Stokes. When you do that, Senator, someone has to take the 
first step. 

Senator Cohen. I understand. 

Mr. Stokes. Legislation of this nature is a step in that direction, 
but again it has to be combined with, I think, the things that we 
are talking about here as three separate professions. They have to 
be combined to say to society this is important. If the teacher is 
going to teach, he or she has to be in an environment where they 
can teach. They can't be in behind bullet-proof glass when it is 110 
degrees outside because of what is next door. 

Senator COHEN. What I am suggesting is you can take the hand- 
guns away, but then they will find a way to have small sawed-off 

Mr. Stokes. Well, they are available now. 

Senator Cohen. Right, so it is not just a handgun. There will be 
ways in which to commit the violent acts. We have got to deal with 
resolving the violence itself, and that is a multifaceted and complex 
problem. As I indicated before, many social factors are involved. 

Dr. Haller, you said that these are children not felons. Ms. 
Ramsay, who testified initially, might tell you that the 16-year-old 
boy who murdered her boyfriend is a felon. And that he is not 
being treated as harshly as she or others might like. 

You mentioned, Mr. Stokes, that gang members now have young 
juveniles, teenagers, commit the acts of murder or violence, know- 
ing they will get a better break or an easier break. Maybe we ought 
to start having a policy in which we hold all the gang members re- 
sponsible as accessories to murder, aggravated assault, and what- 
ever, much as we perhaps ought to hold the parents responsible 
when their children commit acts of violence under their direct su- 
pervision, or use a weapon that is in the house. You talked about 
this. Dr. Haller. It seems to me that we ought to impose a much 
stricter penalty against violent behavior. 

Mr. Stokes. I think that is what ATF is doing with their 
Triggerlock program, going after those people under that program, 
which has turned out to be an excellent program and has had a tre- 
mendous impact in State and local communities where we can do 

Senator COHEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much. Senator Cohen. I would 
like to welcome Senator Moseley-Braun here. She is the newest 
member of our subcommittee. We are delighted to have you here 
this morning. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Thank you. Senator Kohl, and my col- 
league. Senator Cohen. I am delighted to have a chance to see my 
friend, Dewey Stokes, and to congratulate him. I don't know the 
other members of the panel personally, but I do know Mr. Stokes 
and the leadership that he has provided within the law enforce- 
ment community around these issues. 


I think that, if nothing else, it is really important to focus in on 
the message that Dewey Stokes has represented in this debate, 
which is responsible gun ownership. To say that there is a middle 
ground between the people who want to get rid of guns and the 
people who want to protect the second amendment — and that mid- 
dle ground has to do with the level of responsibility that will stop 
our kids from killing each other and will make our communities 
safer and restore our domestic security. 

I think, coming out of law enforcement, that is particularly im- 
portant, and I want to congratulate him for the leadership that he 
has shown in this area, and participating in this debate, and for 
the way that he has represented law enforcement and the law en- 
forcement community in this entire intellectual argument or debate 
and coming together, because I think that somewhere we are going 
to have to find some answers quickly. If anything, the consensus, 
I think, is building that we can no longer just allow these issues 
to just go and be neglected; that we have to begin to take some re- 
sponsible action in this regard. 

I am reminded, listening to your testimony, Mr. Stokes, of my 
brother, who, as you know, is in the Chicago Police Department. 
He is now in homicide, but before that — my brother had a cap that 
said our day begins when your day ends. That was a joke, actually. 

In any event, before he went into homicide, he was at two schools 
in Chicago, one of which was particularly violent and, in fact, he 
was shot at at that school, and that school had a metal detector. 
So it seems to me that the issue transcends putting up metal detec- 
tors. We cannot guarantee the safety of anybody with metal detec- 
tors. It may have a chilling effect on the youngsters bringing weap- 
ons into schools, but that one youngster that is determined to come 
in and terrorize a school is not going to be stopped by the fact that 
there is a metal detector because they will get them in in any 
event. At least that has been the experience that we have seen. 

Ms. Hatton. Senator, if I might, they have to also be operative. 
I think school budgets show constraints, so when schools in Chi- 
cago — and I read it. Financially, they were not able to have it oper- 
ating every day, and it was a chance. So kids know things are not 
operating every day. They, too, take chances. I am certain in Mil- 
waukee, if the board of directors chose to install this particular 
type of detector, they would ensure we would have human re- 
sources and the electronic operation for backups on it to make sure 
it would operate, because our kids are sophisticated. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Yes, that is correct, Ms. Hatton, and I 
am going to get back to my question of Mr. Stokes, but to make 
the point that you just made, the problem with that is that that 
takes resources out of education. I mean, we are talking about not 
having enough money, enough tax dollars to go around to provide 
instructional support for our young people. Now, to have to divert 
what limited funding there is into this exercise is doubly dumb, it 
seems to me. I mean, some way or another we are missing the 

Ms. Hatton. Exactly. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. I want to get back to Mr. Stokes be- 
cause it seems to me that there are some approaches that we can 
take to limit handguns around the schools that maybe are not 


being considered. You mentioned one when you talked about the 
zone concept, and I would like to elaborate on that a little bit. 

You also mentioned it in another way when you talked about the 
costs of insurance, homeowners insurance, property insurance, and 
the like. I guess my second question would be do you see any po- 
tential in handgun insurance, owner insurance, so as to drive the 
costs up. Maybe parents will be a little more careful. They will lock 
it up with the family jewels, as it were, as opposed to leaving it 
out on the kitchen table for the youngsters to take to school. 

Do you see a potential for use of insurance with regard to hand- 
guns as an alternative approach, and are there other approaches 
that you think would help dry up the supply of handguns to young 


Mr. Stokes. Yes, and if you will reiterate your first question? 

Senator Moseley-Braun. The first part was about the zones. 
The second was about insurance, and the third is if there are any 


Mr. Stokes. The school zones — and in the booklet that I provided 
in addition to my testimony, there is a copy of our city ordinance 
on what we call guns and drug-free school zones that was passed, 
and then a proposed piece of legislation by State Representative 
Jane Campbell from Ohio, has proposed at the State level to stiffen 
penalties for those who bring around the school— not into the 
school, but around the school— drugs or guns. 

It has had an effect in our community, and within the book I 
have a statement from the commander of our juvenile bureau who 
says that since it has been implemented, it has had an effect. So, 
that has run some of the drug dealers and guns out of those school 
areas because our judges have taken it seriously and they are im- 
plementing tough, no-nonsense-type sentences. 

Insurance-wise, I believe that the whole country has been in an 
uproar about insurance, and perhaps the doctor can speak to this 
from a medical aspect better than I can. But from my association— 
and the American medical documents come up with what we spend 
on just gunshot wounds. A couple of years ago, it was like $1.5 bil- 
lion, or a little over $1 billion in 1 year. That did not include the 
rehabilitation of those individuals. It did not take into consider- 
ation long-term rehabilitation, which sometimes in gunshot wounds 
may run 2, 3 years. 

Those are the types of impacts that affect the average citizen out 
there that thinks that it is not going to bother them— the business- 
man, the robbery insurance that he must carry. Then, again, he as 
a potential victim who uses a weapon then has to pay a lawyer to 
represent him if someone comes into his store or his place of busi- 
ness. You know, I think those types of costs are the costs that I 
was referring to that many people overlook and say it is not affect- 
ing them at home. 

Even though they are not that one of five that we talked about 
earlier, they are affected. So each and every working American, 
every working poor that is without insurance, is affected by the 
costs of these insurance costs. There are many people that have 
homeowners policies that don't realize their homeowners policy is 
going up because of large settlements where firearms are used in 
the home or found in the home by a child that accidentally shoots 


a playmate or intentionally shoots a pla5rmate. Those costs are defi- 
nitely going up and they are adding to your homeowners costs 
across America. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Do you have any other suggestions in 
terms of approaches that we might take? 

Mr. Stokes. I believe that mandatory gun training for those who 
hunt in every State should be implemented. I believe that there 
should be continuity of a Federal law throughout the country that 
affects every minor in regard to this legislation so that there is 
some consistency, so that the law is the same in all 50 States. 

Within the booklet you will find the differences of laws within 
each of those States. There is no consistency, and I believe that it 
should be consistent. I don't think that a 12- or a 13-year-old 
should be permitted to walk down the street openly carrying a fire- 
arm. Today, in some States, if that 13 year old does that, I as a 
law enforcement officer have no law in that State to stop that indi- 
vidual and question him or her about where they are going with 
that gun. 

I have to wait until they use the gun and react to a crime, and 
that is what I was saying about this legislation. If we could get 
some legislation that would help law enforcement prevent crime 
and not merely react to it, that is the positive side of this legisla- 
tion, I believe, if it can be worked out. I think there are some areas 
within the legislation that need to be refined and more detailed ad- 
dressed, but again, as I said earlier, we are willing to work with 
this legislation to try and define that and get it down to where it 
is a piece of workable legislation. I think it is a step in the right 
direction, absolutely. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Thank you. 

Dr. Haller. Senator Moseley-Braun, may I just add one com- 
ment about that because I think you are seeking ways in which we 
might approach this, and we certainly are in the same way from 
the medical standpoint. 

When we were trying to decrease the incidence of serious injuries 
from motor vehicle-related accidents in children, we first had to 
find out what was causing them to look at the ways in which chil- 
dren were injured, and it was perfectly clear that one way was that 
they were not restrained, and so the child restraints came into 
being. They have had a profound impact on the mortality associ- 
ated with it. 

Then seatbelts as you get older — and who is it that tells you to 
hook up your seatbelts? Your child. I mean, you can teach children. 
You can't teach adults much, but I think the approach in the 
schools is where we must focus our attention. 

I would like to second what Mr. Stokes has said about mandatory 
handgun, firearm education in areas where they are going to be 
used, and I would encourage the National Rifle Association, which 
has an excellent hunter safety course, to come forward and provide 
funds to help with the costs of those educational purposes in the 
schools, rather than having all that money used for lobbying for 
other purposes. I mean, that would be a positive approach to de- 
creasing injuries to children and young adults that would make it 
possible for us to have such courses, more effective ways of teach- 


ing children to resolve their conflicts rather than resorting to a 

One of the real problems that we see as physicians is that we can 
prevent some of these things. For example, if a teenager dis- 
appointed in love takes some drug or slashes their wrists, we can 
treat them when they come in, but the vast majority of teenage sui- 
cides now are by handguns. When they have blown away their 
brains, you can't do anything for them. It is beyond any treatment 
that we can give them. So I think we have got to address it preven- 
tive-wise, as well as looking at better means of getting that edu- 
cational part across to our young people. 

Ms. Hatton. Senator, if I may just add quickly, I support Sen- 
ator Moseley-Braun's statements relative to being educated about 
these issues. A proactive stance is necessary because there is an- 
other cost that we failed to mention this morning, and that is once 
a child who has been injured has returned to a school, oftentimes 
this youngster is assigned to an exceptional education department 
and those astronomical figures of educating that child usually is 
four or five times the cost of educating a nonexceptional ed child. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Thank you very much. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you very much. Senator Moseley-Braun. 

Senator Cohen? 

Senator Cohen. Just a final comment, Mr. Chairman. First, this 
has been an enormously impressive panel, and I think you have 
made a really positive contribution to the development of this legis- 
lation in the spirit in which you have addressed it. 

I haven't made up my mind about the advisability or wisdom of 
using metal detectors in schools, I must tell you, but I would point 
out that here we are sitting on what Ronald Reagan used to call 
this shining city on the hill, this beacon to the hopes of many other 
nations, and everybody who comes to visit here has to walk 
through a metal detector. 

Now, we are imposing upon the liberties of the citizens of this 
country, but I feel more secure, as a matter of fact. We know metal 
detectors are not infallible. A couple of years ago, notwithstanding 
the metal detectors, we had a gentleman who came through, sat in 
the back of one of these committee hearing rooms. He had a brief- 
case and in it was a loaded .357 Magnum. Thank goodness, there 
was a woman sitting next to him who noticed it as he opened the 
briefcase and she went to the police officer at the door and a great 
tragedy was averted at that moment. 

So we may find ourselves in the short term having to strike a 
balance that would favor more security rather than more liberty. 
That is always a delicate analysis we have to make. Hopefully, the 
short-term measures will not be long-term measures. We have got 
to get back to restoring a sense of values. 

Mr. Chairman, I won't delay this much longer, but I pointed out 
an incident during Janet Reno's confirmation hearings about a 
friend of mine whose car was stolen but found within a matter of 
24 or 36 hours. The car had been stripped and damaged, every- 
thing taken. She went to see the young teenagers who had taken 
the car. There were four of them and their ages ranged between 
11 and 13. 


She said, look, I know that the car is gone for all practical pur- 
poses, so the insurance will take care of the car; please give me my 
license and registration back because I don't want to deal with the 
hassle of the DC bureaucracy. That was more important to her at 
that moment. This little 11 year old said, it will cost you ten bucks 
up front first. Now, that is how brazen it has become. That is what 
I am talking about in terms of attitudes and values. We have got 
a lot of work to do to change that kind of attitude. It means edu- 
cation. It means restoring spiritual values. It means having a fam- 
ily life. It means swift and tough enforcement and punishment in 
order to get back to some basic core values that I think have been 
missing for quite some time in our society. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Senator Cohen, if I may — and I know 
this isn't supposed to be a colloquy between members of the com- 
mittee. I, on the one hand, couldn't agree with you more that it is 
an issue of values. But I think we also have to be realistic about 
it is that is out there and why we see these symptoms of our failure 
to address realistically the problems in our society. 

In all too many communities, the only economy that exists is the 
drug culture, and part and parcel of that is handgun use. So, for 
a lot of youngsters, just going to school is an exercise in taking 
your life in your hands because the handguns are so much a part 
of the economic culture of the community that they are unavoid- 
able, both for those who are involved in the illegal drug trade as 
well as for all the honest citizens and everybody else who feels that 
that is the only protection they have. 

Now, that is not to say anything bad about the police because, 
if anything, the police are overwhelmed and overworked. I wouldn't 
trade jobs with my brother the longest day going because he takes 
his life in his hands every day that he goes out there on any call; 
not even getting to the call, just being there in the police car, he 
takes his life in his hands. So you have that reality, with the pro- 
liferation of handguns. 

We had a hearing just yesterday on violence in the media, with 
these youngsters getting the message that the thing to do when 
you are upset, when your boyfriend quits you, when the check is 
late, when something is wrong, is to blow somebody away. 

You mentioned the rap songs. I mean, I have heard some in the 
last week that just knocked my socks off that were stunning to me. 
But I dare say that that is art imitating life more than anything 
else. These youngsters are not writing these songs about "I want 
a gangster," fill in the blanks, rhymes with "rich." That is a rap 
song — they have "his" and "her" matching .357 Magnums in this 
rap song and they go out together shooting up the neighborhood. 

Well, that is not art setting a standard for life. That is art imi- 
tating life, and that is the problem we have to address, is getting 
to the conditions that corrupt our core values so badly that we have 
an epidemic of violence in our communities in this country. 

Senator CoHEN. I wish you could have been here to hear my 
opening remarks. 

Mr. Stokes. I included the lyrics to one of the rap songs in here 
for your perusal. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Did you? 

Mr. Stokes. Yes. 


Ms. Hatton. For the record, I just have to be fair as a teacher. 
We can't just say rap; we look at rock, satanic music, heavy metal, 
blues, jazz, and all of it. It is a permeation of trash that is taking 
stock of our kids. 

Mr. Stokes. Play heavy metal music backwards. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. I am afraid to. No, thank you, Dewey. 

Mr. Stokes. When you listen to it, it always has a satanic cult 
message. It is terrible. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Mr. Chairman, I have a statement I 
would like to put into the record. 

Senator Kohl. Without objection, it will be so included. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Moseley-Braun follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Senator Carol Moseley-Braun 

Chairman Kohl, first I want to commend you for introducing this important meas- 
ure banning the transfer and possession of handguns to children. But second, let 
me say it saddens me that we have reached a point in american society where legis- 
lation such as this is necessary. Unfortunately, whether or not we accept it — and 
I for one do not — we have all become accustomed to 15 and 16 year olds bringing 
guns into our high schools. The idea of metal detectors and weapon searches in our 
high schools has become so common that it fails to shock us any longer. But this 
past year, in my hometown of Chicago, a 7-year-old child was caught bringing a gun 
with him to school. When asked why, he said he had brought it because he wanted 
to feel safe. Do we now need metal detectors in the first grade? 

Guns are tearing apart our society. Despite what opponents of gun control would 
have us believe, the majority of the american people are outraged by the permissive- 
ness of our Nation's gun laws. In many places, individuals may easily obtain an un- 
limited number of guns, regardless of their age, their criminal record or their men- 
tal health. The american people have told us it is time to inject some sanity into 
our gun laws. We can see the triumph of common sense in the recent decision of 
the New Jersey legislature to maintain a ban on automatic weapons. Common sense 
also prevailed in Virginia, a state traditionally known for relaxed gun laws, where 
the legislature recently decided to limit gun purchases to one per month. And com- 
mon sense is motivating the thousands of american citizens who have urged this 
congress to pass the Brady bill, to pass legislation banning automatic weapons, and 
to keep guns and ammunition out of the hands of children. 

To those who argue that the second amendment forbids us from adopting the leg- 
islation Senator Kohl has introduced today I ask this: Do you truly believe that the 
Founding Fathers intended the second amendment to allow 11, 12 and 13 year olds 
to arm themselves? Even the most ardent gun advocate can not seriously argue that 
the second amendment was intended to grant children unlimited, unsupervised ac- 
cess to guns. 

Mr. Chairman, it saddens me to see the atmosphere in which our children are 
being raised. Our nation's schools are looking less and less like halls or learning 
and more and more like armed camps. No child can learn in that environment. I 
don't pretend to believe that the legislation proposed today will solve all of the prob- 
lems associated with juvenile violence, but it is certaiinly a step in the right direc- 
tion. I look forward to the opportunity to hear the witnesses present today, and I 
thank the chairman for convening this hearing. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you. Thank you very much, folks. You 
have done a great job. I appreciate your being here. 

Well, our next witness is Susan Lamson. Susan is the new Direc- 
tor of Federal Affairs for the National Rifle Association, and we are 
delighted to have you here with us today and we look forward to 
what you have to say this morning about this bill and the overall 
problem of gun violence. 

We are delighted to have you here. Thank you so much for com- 



Ms. Lamson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Next to me is Richard 
Gardiner, who is our legislative counsel. 

To the extent that problems of violent crimes committed by juve- 
niles can be remedied by the passage of additional firearms restric- 
tions, the NRA is generally supportive of your approach, Mr. Chair- 
man, of imposing reasonable restrictions on the availability and 
possession of handguns by juveniles. 

I want to say that we do appreciate the effort that has been 
made in the draft legislation to recognize and protect the lawful 
possession and use of handguns by juveniles because we have to 
face the fact that most young people use firearms safety and re- 

We do have one major concern, though, with the proposed legisla- 
tion that I would like to address at this point, and that is our un- 
derstanding in reading the bill is we believe that it would inten- 
tionally or otherwise directly involve the Federal Government in an 
area of criminal justice which has traditionally been left to State 
judicial systems. I am speaking specifically to the issue of criminal- 
izing certain activities of juveniles. 

Under current Federal law, only those crimes which would have 
been a crime if committed by an adult are prosecuted in the courts 
of the United States. This is a result of the historical development 
of the system of juvenile justice to allow for special treatment of 
offenders which was based upon the status of the person as a juve- 
nile to whom fewer constitutional rights were accorded. 

Each State has established such a system with unique rules of 
procedure and punishment. As the proposed legislation is currently 
drafted, a whole new system of special procedures for the Federal 
district courts will need to be created, as well as a special system 
of institutions to punish such juveniles, if only to avoid mixing 
them in jails with hardened criminals. 

I would like to point out — I am going to digress in a couple of 
areas with my oral statement just to comment on some statements 
that have been made earlier this morning. I would like to point out 
that the incidents described this morning related to children using 
guns or who were victims of criminal acts by their peers, so to 
speak, are already covered by laws that have been passed by 
States, and I will especially note Wisconsin, Maryland and Illinois. 

But getting back to your draft legislation, I would also like to 
note that there are several other amendments that we think should 
be made to ensure the constitutionality of the bill and to protect 
juveniles engaging in other lawful pursuits, like hunting. So we 
would offer to work with you and your counsel in preparing lan- 
guage that would address some of these concerns. 

Although the subcommittee is not directly addressing the lawful 
use of firearms by young people, I would like to underscore the fact 
that firearms training is valuable, and it is also valuable as a rec- 
reational pursuit in teaching children respect for firearms. 


Hunting and marksmanship are American traditions that de- 
serve to be recognized and perpetuated. In fact, accident statistics 
for young people and firearms show that since 1968 the overall rate 
of fatal gun accidents has fallen by 50 percent. During that time 
span, no other cause of accidental deaths of children have de- 
creased as significantly, and I would like to note that the 50-per- 
cent accident rate decrease for firearms has been almost solely the 
product of private educational efforts by groups such as the NRA, 
the Boy Scouts of America, 4-H Clubs, and others, and not as a 
result of government safety training programs. 

The NRA is a recognized leader in providing safe firearms han- 
dling and instruction to both young and old alike. We have a fire- 
arms safety training program called Eddie Eagle that has been 
given out to millions of individual schools and community organiza- 
tions and is specifically designed to instill in very young children 
one idea, and that is guns are dangerous and should be avoided. 

Responsibility, however, remains the key in preventing firearms- 
related accidents. Irresponsible behavior by adults which allows 
children unsupervised access to firearms is no accident, nor can it 
be legislated away. However, it is one thing to teach a child that 
firearms should never be pointed in an unsafe direction, yet quite 
another to instill in that child the values which engender respect 
for human life. 

We know from experience that teaching young people to respect 
firearms has to be balanced against numerous competing and often 
conflicting influences. To name but one factor, the effects of expo- 
sure to violence, particularly as it relates to television exposure 
during the impressionable years, is finally beginning to gain rec- 
ognition as a serious problem. 

These days, children are left with criminals and violent television 
characters as their only models of gun use, and I think that is a 
sad state of affairs. The NRA recently, in fact, submitted testimony 
to Congress concerning our suggestions for developing standards to 
limit the impact of such media influences on our young people. 

However, the criminal misuse of firearms is a manifestation of 
a deeper societal dysfunction which cannot be addressed so easily. 
What sadder commentary can there be on the failure to instill 
moral values and respect for the sanctity of human life in our 
youth when over the last decade violent crime by juveniles has 
more than doubled in this country. 

The statistics on violent behavior may partially include every 
race and income group, but the overwhelming disproportionate im- 
pact on poor black and Hispanic inner-city children is where the 
problem lies. Solutions must be tailored accordingly and not be 
sweeping or S5nTibolic. 

The pathologies of the inner city cannot be remedied by creating 
stronger laws. As policy analyst David Cople has noted, it requires 
a direct attack on the social ills which cause so many young people 
to grow up believing that their own lives and the lives of others are 
not worth living. 

Crime that occurs in our schools is obviously a very major con- 
cern, and we know that some children feel that they have got to 
take guns to school to protect themselves. Again, I think we have 
got to reduce what causes the fear, especially the fear of harm 


caused by their fellow students, I think, to get at that kind of a 
problem. If your legislation helps to Hmit the factors that allow 
youthful criminals to acquire the means to commit criminal acts, 
we certainly support that measure. 

I would like to note that for NRA — and we have said for a long 
time that the issue really gets down to enforcing existing laws and 
incarcerating violent offenders, and that can be juvenile violent of- 
fenders. We feel that we need to focus on the failure of the criminal 
justice system and the juvenile justice system in dealing with the 
criminal misuse of firearms. The reality is that there are many 
children who fit the chronological definition of "juvenile," but are 
adults in behavior. 

The preservation or order in our society is directly related to a 
functioning, effective system of protection for the rights of Ameri- 
cans and prosecution of those who abuse those rights, and our de- 
mocracy cannot survive without them. 

I would like to conclude and thank you for granting me a little 
bit extra time. I would like to please, with the testimony, submit 
a study conducted by David Cople called "Children and Guns: Sen- 
sible Solutions," and I think he has some recommendations on pol- 
icy strategy that would be worth reading. 

[The prepared statement of Ms. Lamson follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Susan R. Lamson 

Mr. Chairman and Members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the NRA, we ap- 
preciate the invitation to testify before the Subcommittee on the important subject 
of children and guns. I am Susan Lamson, the Director, Federal Affairs Division of 
the National Rifle Association of America's Institute for Legislative Action (NRA- 
ILA). Accompanying me is Richard Gardiner, Legislative Counsel for NRA-ILA. 

It may be trite to state, but it is no less true, that our young people are our fu- 
ture. The subject we address today involves at least three different components: the 
lawful use of firearms by young people; firearms as a real or potential threat to 
voung people because of accidents; and the abuse and misuse of firearms in crime 
by young people. 

Obviously, it is the third part of this problem which must be examined. This issue 
relates to the motivations of young people who carry firearms and commit crimes, 
and the failure of the criminal justice system to recognize and address the scope of 
this problem. It appears that society's failure to deal with crime in a meaningful 
way, embodied in our "catch and release" criminal justice system, begins with and 
has its most deleterious effects on our youth. 

To the extent that the problems of violent crime committed by juveniles can be 
remedied by the passage of additional firearms restrictions, we support such efforts. 
With this in mind, let me say that the NRA is generally supportive of Senator 
Kohl's goal of imposing reasonable restrictions on the availability and possession of 
handguns by young people. We are pleased that Senator Kohl has made a strong 
effort to recognize and establish the conditions under which lawful possession and 
use should be protected. The simple truth, is that most young people use firearms 
in a lawf\il and responsible manner. We would particularly welcome this legislative 
effort if it is accompanied by a heightened attention to the enforcement of those 
laws which already exist governing the prosecution of the criminal misuse of fire- 
arms. Anyone who believes that these laws are presently being enforced and pros- 
ecuted should request information on arrests, prosecutions, and sentencing (includ- 
ing the sentences which are actually served) for firearms related crimes from the 
Federal and state courts. To the extent that we have been able to obtain such evi- 
dence, it hardly paints a picture of a serious criminal justice system. 

There is, however, one major pohcy concern with the proposed legislation that 
must be addressed apart from the specific provisions of the bill. This bill will, inten- 
tionally or otherwise, begin to directly involve the Federal Government in an area 
of criminal justice which has traditionally been left to state judicial systems. I am 
speaking specifically to the issue of criminalizing certain activities of juveniles. The 
proposal breaks dramaticEilly new ground for the Federal government. 


Under current Federal law, only those crimes "which would have been a crime if 
committed by an adult" are prosecuted in the courts of the United States, 18 
U.S. C. 5031. This is a result of the historical development of a system of juvenile 
justice to allow for special treatment of offenders which was based upon the status 
of the person as a juvenile to whom fewer constitutional rights were accorded. In 
the words of the Supreme Court, the system was established because "society's duty 
to the children could not be confined by the concept of justice alone." In re Gault, 
387 U.S.I, 15(1967). Every state in the Union has established such a system with 
unique rules of procedure and punishment. Thus, if Congress intends to start down 
the path of creating juvenile status offenses — such as those established in the pro- 
posed legislation — it will also need to create a whole new system of special proce- 
dures for the Federal district courts, as well as a special system of institutions to 
punish such juveniles, if only to avoid mbdng them in jails with hardened criminals. 

While the goals of the bill may be laudatory, the transcendent issue of Federal 
juvenile justice needs a long hard look before moving into these areas. 

I would, moreover, note that, if the subcommittee decides to move forward with 
this legislation, we believe that there are several common sense amendments which 
should be made to ensure the constitutionality of the bill and to protect law-abiding 
juveniles engaging in historically lawful activities such as hunting. Because of the 
incompleteness of our evaluation at this point, we have not submitted our rec- 
ommendations along with this testimony. We look forward to the opportunity to 
work with Senator Kohl and his counsel in preparing language to address these 
minimal concerns and to resolve the juvenile justice issues I have raised. 

Although this subcommittee is not addressing the lawful use of firearms by mil- 
lions of young people, the value of firearms training as a recreational pursuit should 
not be overlooked. Hunting and marksmanship are American traditions that deserve 
to be recognized and perpetuated. Tens of millions of youths use firearms safely and 
responsibly. In fact, accident statistics for young people and firearms show that 
since 1968 the overall rate of fatal gun accidents has fallen by 50 percent. During 
that time span no other cause of accidental deaths of children have decreased as 
significantly as gun related accidents. 

At the present time, firearms related deaths are the fourth leading cause of child- 
hood deaths and account for 3 percent of all accidental deaths of children aged 0- 
14. This is hardly insignificant, but relative to the risk of drowning, fires, or auto 
accidents the risk is considerably less. For instance, a child is 13 times more likely 
to die in an auto accident, and more than four times as likely to die in a fire or 
be drowned. 

It should be noted that the 50 percent accident rate decrease has been almost 
solely the product of private educational efforts by groups such as the NRA, the Boy 
Scouts, 4-H clubs and others, not as a result of government safety training pro- 

The NRA is the recognized leader in providing safe firearms handling and instruc- 
tion to both young and old alike. We believe wholeheartedly that firearms training 
is a lifesaver, and that it is a message that everyone should hear. Our "Eddie Eagle ' 
firearms safety training program, based on a cartoon character of the same name, 
is geared toward small cnildren. This program has been given out to literally mil- 
lions of individuals, schools, and community organizations and is specifically de- 
signed to instill in young children one idea — that guns are dangerous and should 
be avoided. 

Responsibility remains the key in preventing firearms related accidents. A fire- 
arm, loaded or otherwise, does not belong within a small child's sphere of influence. 
Irresponsible behavior by adults which aJlows children unsupervised access to fire- 
arms is no accident, nor can it be legislated away. 

However, it is one thing to teach a child that a firearm should never be pointed 
in an unsafe direction, yet quite another to instill in that child the values which 
engender respect for human life. The criminal misuse of firearms is a manifestation 
of a deeper societal dysfunction which goes to less tractable problems that cannot 
be addressed by a message delivered by cartoon characters. 

To name but one factor, the effects of exposure to violence, particularly as it re- 
lates to television exposure during the impressionable years, is finally beginning to 
gain recognition as a serious problem. 

The NRA recently submitted testimony to Congress concerning our suggestions for 
developing standards to limit the impact of media influences on young people. Our 
recommendations are predicated on the assumption that those who control the 
media are responsible participants in this debate, and should be willing to take vol- 
untary steps to limit the unintentional exposure of young minds to gratuitous vio- 


We know from experience that teaching young people to respect firearms has to 
be isalanced against numerous competing, and often conflicting, influences. For in- 
stance, we know that careless handling of a firearm by a popular movie or television 
program neutralizes the message we are trying to convey. However, what happens 
when the message is that violence is a means to an end? That is the problem this 
subcommittee is confronting. 

What sadder commentary can there be on the failure to instill moral values and 
respect for the sanctity of human life in our youth when, over the last decade, vio- 
lent crime by juveniles has more than doubled in the United States. In 1982 there 
was a murder committed by a iuvenile approximately every 40 days. In 1992 a mur- 
der was committed by a juvenile every 12 days. In 1982 a juvenile committed a rape 
every 26 days; by 1992 it was every 8 days. The statistics on violent behavior may 
partially include every race and income group, but those who ignore the fact that 
there is an overwhelmingly disproportionate impact on poor, black and hispanic 
inner city youths are not focusing on where the problem lies. 

The pathologies of the inner city cannot be remedied by creating stronger laws, 
unless of course we can pass laws that every family has two caring parents; unless 
we can pass laws that reverse the pernicious effects of drugs and widespread alcohol 
use in our inner cities; unless we can pass laws outlawing poverty; unless we can 
pass laws that give young people stability and the knowledge that they can reach 
their goals by hard work and perseverance — and that the goals are worth reaching. 

Last year. Professors Joseph Sheley, Zina McGee and James Wright published 
"Gun-Related Violence in and Around Inner-City Schools"— the results of a cross- 
sectional survey often inner-city high schools in several states. Noting that "nearly 
everything that leads to gun-related violence among youths is already against the 
law, the researchers' prescription was neither more gun restrictions, metal detec- 
tors, nor shake-downs of students, but "a concerted effort to rebuild the social struc- 
ture of inner cities." 

Sheley, McGee and Wright found that violence in our schools does not spring from 
the classroom floor: "Rather, violence spills into the schools from the world outside. 
* * * Structurally, we are experiencing the development of an inner-city 
underclass unlike any in ovir past. In a shrinking industrial economy, we are wit- 
nessing the disintegration of the traditional family, increasing poverty and home- 
lessness, diminishing health, and deteriorating educational institutions. ' 

It is interesting to consider why, when we read the statistics on the number of 
assaults, rapes, robberies and murders that occur in our schools, we question how 
it is that our children feel obligated to provide for their own protection. I ask you, 
would any member of this committee feel safe under similar circumstance? It ap- 
pears to be no less true that one of the primary reasons why many young people 
are bringing guns to school is because they believe they need to do so. Until we can 
reverse this belief in fact, it is doubtful that many students are going to accept it 
in theory. To the extent that this can be accomplished by limiting the factors that 
ilow youthful criminals to acquire the means to commit these acts, we support such 

The unfortunate conclusion to my testimony is that there are no easy solutions 
to this problem, only hard realities. The hard reality is that we have a long and 
a short term problem. The long-term problem is that we have raised a generation 
of which far too many of its members are loathe to recognize any moral authority, 
or community boundary. Until we are willing and able to address the underlying 
failings that have led us to this juncture, this problem is only going to worsen. The 
short term problem is that we have far too many children who fit the chronological 
definition, but are adults by behavior. 

In this vein, youth violence is no more a product of lax, or a lack of, gun laws 
than is similar adult violence. No amount of regulation, up to and including a total 
ban on all firearms use by minors, will have any significant effect on the level of 
juvenile violent crime until we begin to get serious about enforcing existing laws 
and incarcerating law breakers. 

The preservation of order in our society is directly related to a functioning, effec- 
tive system of protection for the rights of Americans and prosecution of those who 
abuse those rights. Our democracy cannot survive without these protections. The 
fact that too much of the burden of our failure has come to rest squarely on the 
back of our young people, in many cases perpetrated by those who would otherwise 
be regarded as peers, makes it even more incumbent to begin immediately address- 
ing both components. The NRA intends to do its part and we are willing to work 
with any Member of Congress to craft proposals which will help to achieve criminal 
justice reform. 

Again, we thank the subcommittee for giving us the opportunity to present our 
views on such an important issue. 


Senator KoHL. Thank you very much, Ms. Lamson. Do I under- 
stand that you do support the thrust of this legislation? 

Ms. Lamson. Yes, sir. 

Senator KOHL. As I would understand the background of your or- 
ganization, this is — and I am happy to say this — it seems to me 
that this is a movement in the direction of supporting a form of 
gun control legislation. I mean, do I miss the thrust of this? I am 
encouraged to hear you say you support the thrust of what we are 
trying to do, which is to have gun control legislation as it affects 
minors. Is this something a little different in terms of where you 
have been and where you are going? 

Ms. Lamson. As it relates to your draft legislation, it does ad- 
dress children and guns that is already addressed by Federal law 
in terms of the ability of children to purchase handguns and long 
guns. For us, if there are additional measures that keep guns from 
children that is already embraced in existing Federal law, we sup- 
port it. 

The reason we support the bill, as well, is because it does recog- 
nize that there is a lawful use of firearms by children in terms of 
hunting and target-shooting. But, no, I would not want you to 
think that as a result of support for this type of legislation that we 
would be moving in the direction of generally more gun control. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you very much. 

Senator Cohen? 

Senator Cohen. Ms. Lamson, existing law clearly is not ade- 
quate. The law says you cannot sell a handgun or other weapon to 
a minor. That is illegal. It is not illegal for that minor to have pos- 
session of that weapon, so that is what this legislation is trying to 
deal with, the possession by the juvenile or youth offender. Existing 
law doesn't cover that. So you would agree that it is inadequate to 
that extent? 

Ms. Lamson. Yes, if, in fact, we are trying to buttress what the 
intent of the Federal laws are, recognizing that juveniles, by their 
age, are distinguished from adults in handling dangerous firearms. 

Senator Cohen. Do you think we ought to hold parents either 
civilly or criminally responsible for the misuse of weapons in their 

Ms. Lamson. No. 

Senator COHEN. You do not? 

Ms. Lamson. No. As I have said before, I think responsibility is 
the issue at hand in accident prevention as well as responsibility 
of parents to instill values. They are first sort of front line in rais- 
ing children, but I really don't think you can legislate responsibility 
and punish irresponsibility. 

I mean, my concern is what would you do if you had such a re- 
striction with a parent because do they end up being removed from 
the home? Do all of a sudden the children get removed from the 
home? You know, I think there are bigger issues on what happens 
if a parent is held liable in terms of that existing family structure. 

Senator COHEN. As I understand it, you indicated before that a 
weapon in a home, if there is inadequate training in dealing with 
that weapon, is not an accident at all. Didn't you use those words? 

Ms. Lamson. I am sorry. Would you 


Senator COHEN. I think you indicated that a weapon in the 
hands of someone who is not fully trained to use that properly is 
not an accident. 

Ms. Lamson. It is an accident, but it is 

Senator COHEN. I think you used the words, it was not an acci- 

Ms. Lamson. Well, I am saying that, you know, irresponsibility 
of adults is not an accident. One assumes that adults, you know, 
are, in fact, responsible human beings past a certain age. But, you 
know, I make it more as a philosophical statement, still under- 
standing that responsibility if paramount. 

Senator COHEN. You indicated that there are a number of edu- 
cational programs sponsored by the NRA, the Boy Scouts, 4-H 
Clubs, and others. Most of those would be for rural areas or subur- 
ban areas. There aren't many 4-H Clubs, for example, in the inner 
cities and not many Boy Scout troops that I am aware of in the 
inner cities. 

What kind of educational programs are directed toward the inner 
cities as far as training about the use and misuse of guns? 

Ms. Lamson. Well, I certainly think that NRA has and would 
continue to be more than willing to work within the school systems 
themselves in inner cities to bring educational programs like Eddie 
Eagle into the schools. That is the objective of the program to begin 

I think if we had ability to work with the local police organiza- 
tions who would have the kind of space available for safety train- 
ing, we would be happy to do that, and I think there are other pro- 
grams that can be worked on in the inner city related to safe fire- 
arms use or, in fact, recreational pursuits. I mean, you know, 
Olympic team members get their training at a young age, and 
somewhere up through the ranks they learn it at an early age and 
if NRA can help provide mentors and guidance with that, we would 
be happy to. 

Senator Cohen. You mentioned to Senator Kohl that you wanted 
to work with the subcommittee to develop a law that was constitu- 
tional, right? You think this legislation is unconstitutional as cur- 
rently drafted? 

Ms. Lamson. One of the concerns that we had in our preliminary 
review of the bill is that it doesn't state an interstate nexus to it, 
and you have a situation of possession with intrastate, and so we 
just would want to address what we need to do in terms of the Fed- 
eral Government's role as the nexus in interstate commerce. 

Senator Cohen. Do you have cases that contradict the cases that 
Senator Chafee was citing — the Miller case, starting back in the 
1930's and that support the argument that the Federal Govern- 
ment, or the State governments for that matter, have no right to 
regulate in this field? 

Ms. Lamson. In terms of his discussion on the second amend- 

Senator Cohen. Yes. 

Ms. Lamson. Because I am not an expert in that area, I would 
like, if I could, to submit to the subcommittee a written answer on 
it because there has been a lot of scholarly work done and I would 
not want to purport to repeat that, but I would like to submit it. 


Senator COHEN. Thank you. That is all I have. 

Senator Kohl. Senator Moseley-Braun? 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Thank you. Ms. Lamson, I am a little 
perplexed by part of the testimony. You testified that you wouldn't 
want to interfere with the lawful use of handguns by juveniles, and 
I can't think of an instance in which a child should ever have a 
handgun. I was confused as to what you meant by the lawful use 
of a handgun by a juvenile. 

Ms. Lamson. The issue at hand has been the lawful use of fire- 
arms under supervision, and there are certainly target ranges, and 
so forth, that allow juveniles, young teenagers who are juveniles 
within that age limitation who are quite capable of learning target 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Well, that is exempted under the bill. 

Ms. Lamson. That is right, that is correct, and that is why we 
recognize there is a lawful use there. As I mentioned in the testi- 
mony, one other area we would like to discuss is the ability to have 
an exception for hunting because most States provide an age for 
hunting that is less than the Federal standard in terms of posses- 
sion of guns. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Well, in terms of hunting specifically, 
I used to hunt with my daddy when we were growing up and he 
never used a handgun to hunt. Do people use handguns? 

Ms. Lamson. They do for varmint hunting, as an example, yes. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Wouldn't it be alright just to say, for 
hunting for juveniles, we would restrict that to long guns? 

Ms. Lamson. Well, the thing is what we are talking about is law- 
ful use, and I think as long as there is an exception 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Well, we make the laws. That is why 
we are here. 

Ms. Lamson. That is right, that is correct, and our feeling is that 
as long as handguns are being used lawfully, you know, under su- 
pervision, that if the activity is otherwise lawful, then we would 
ask that that would be considered by the subcommittee. That was 
one of the issues we wanted to raise in terms of the draft legisla- 
tion to be considered. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Again, I guess that is why I asked the 
question in terms of hunting specifically. Hunting with a long gun 
is one thing; hunting with a handgun, it seems to me, is quite an- 
other. I can't imagine a situation in which you would want to see 
a child with a handgun. 

Ms. Lamson. Well, I am not sure that a firearm or shotgun or 
handgun is any more or less a threat in terms of injury or death 
to the individual user or to anyone else if it is abused, and so I 
don't make the distinction. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. But there is a distinction. You can't 
talk about the long guns and the rifles and the handguns in the 
same breath. They are different instrumentalities and they have 
different effects, and the problem that we have in the school rooms 
and schoolyards and in classrooms is not long guns. The problem 
there is a handgun-specific issue, and I thought that this legisla- 
tion was about handguns and that we were talking about hand- 
guns, and I wouldn't want to get it confused. 


I am not trying to be combative with you. I just don't want to 
dilute the focus of our inquiry by talking about long guns and 
things that people use to hunt with, as opposed to the handguns 
that are terrorizing our classrooms. 

Ms. Lamson. Well, I would say that we would like to look at this 
legislation not restricting uses that have been traditional in this 
country, you know, protected and covered by State law, as well as 
Federal law, and that is why we raised the subject of hunting. We 
can provide additional information to you on that as it relates to 
handguns. But, again, we have recommended under consideration 
because the draft legislation already speaks to or already has un- 
derscored that there is firearm use by juveniles that has been legal 
and that is legitimate. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Thank you. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you. 

Senator Biden, chairman of the Judiciary Committee. 

Senator Biden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your 
testimony today. I think that it is useful when we can unite in 
principle on a matter that affects the second amendment or is ar- 
guably impacted by the second amendment. 

Notwithstanding some of the newsletters I read from various or- 
ganizations, including yours, I happen to think that the ability of 
Americans to possess arms is a constitutional right. I do not con- 
sider myself someone who wishes to, nor have I voted to, quote, be 
a "gun controller," but I do think, once you cross a threshold in this 
country, which we have, on the ability of the state to determine 
what types of weapons can be owned, like we have done on every 
other constitutional amendment, we have begun to outline excep- 

There are exceptions to freedom of speech — the old classic that 
you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. "Fire" is speech. 
There are exceptions to the third amendment, the fourth amend- 
ment, the fifth amendment, the sixth amendment, and I think it 
is pretty clear from the case law and from constitutional law that 
there are exceptions. 

I don't think the NRA argues that if you had enough money to 
buy an F-15, people should be able to go out and buy F-15s and 
park them on their private runways, loaded with full ordnance. We 
have prohibitions on people buying, as a practical matter, M-1 
tanks. So once you cross the threshold that you can limit to some 
degree the type of weapon that can be owned and possessed by an 
individual, and that being permissible under the second amend- 
ment, then you get into, from your organization's perspective, a 
slippery slope; from the perspective of those of us who think there 
has to be some more rational approach to how we deal with the 
second amendment, a possibility of increasing the security of Amer- 
icans without denying people their second amendment constitu- 
tional rights, 

With that preface, let me ask you the following question. I know 
of few organizations that are able to keep contact with and impact 
on their constituency, and I don't say that critically. I say that in 
a flattering way. There are a lot of public service and/or lobbying 
organizations from left, right and center that have different de- 


grees of impact on their core constituency. You have had a serious 
and positive impact on your core constituency. 

My question is what is it that you as American citizens and as 
a leading organization in this country can do or do you think you 
should do to deal with that issue, the fact that 130 — I won't bore 
you. I ask unanimous consent, Mr. Chairman, that my entire state- 
ment be placed in the record. 

Senator Kohl. Without objection, it will be done. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Biden follows:] 

Prepared Statement of Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. 

I am pleased that the subcommittee is convening this important hearing on the 
problem of gun violence among our nations children. This urgent problem threatens 
our children every day, and the congress must act stem the violence. 

I would like to commend Senator Kohl for his intense interest in this issue and 
his efforts to find a solution. 

I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome our distinguished witnesses 
and thank them for taking the time to come here today their insights with us. It 
is a pleasure to have them here. 

America is suffering an unprecedented rise of murder and violence I have consist- 
ently pointed out that no state, city, town or neighborhood has been spared the epi- 
demic of violence. And today we are seeing more signs of an ominous new trend of 
violence — the shocking rise of guns and weapons among our children and in our 

Last October, I chaired a hearing that examined the shocking increase of guns 
among our children. And with todays' hearing we continue to study this ominous 
trend and seek solutions. 

As I pointed out at last Octobers' hearing, our nations schools have been particu- 
larly hard-hit by this violence and the extent to which are children are arming 
themselves can be seen in statistics available from the schools. In fact, at least 
100,000 children are carrying guns to school everyday, and one in five kids have 
carried a deadly weapon to school in the last month. 

At the October hearing, I released the results of a comprehensive fifty state sur- 
vey done by the majority committee staff studying the rise of violence in our schools. 

This study pinpointed several root causes of the shocking rise in gun violence 
among our children: 

First, drugs have fueled the fire by not only putting more guns on the streets, 
but putting more money in the hands of teen dealeii4o buy expensive, high-pow- 
ered weapons. 

Second, gangs have not only armed their own members, but have also become 
the gun traffickers putting ever more guns on the streets and in the hands of 

The third contributing factor is what might be called a "John Wayne Syn- 
drome" —in other words, the terrifying cycle that begins when children arm 
themselves to "protect" themselves from other children who are carrying guns. 

Congress has enacted some measures to battle this problem. For example, in 1990 
the gun-free schools act, introduced by Senator Kohl, "gun-free school zones", pro- 
hibiting the possession of a firearm a within 1,000 feet of a school. Still it is clear 
that we must do much more. 

For example, in last years crime bill which I and many members of this commit- 
tee fought so hard to pass, was the safe schools act of 1991. This comprehensive 
measure would have authorized $100,000,000 to fund anticrime and safety meas- 
ures in schools. , , , t^ j u-n n 

And of particular importance, last years crime bill included the Brady bill. Fas- 
sage of the Brady bill is an absolute national necessity to protect not only our chil- 
dren, but the whole citizenry from senseless handgun violence. 

Am pleased that Juvenile Justice subcommittee has convened this hearing to con- 
sider Senator Kohl's proposal to prohibit the transfer or salem handgun or ammuni- 
tion to a juvenile. This is an important issue and I look forward to hearing todays 
testimony and working with all involved. We must break this culture of violence 
that plagues — our children. 

In short, the massive rise of guns and violence among our children must serve 
as a "wake-up" call for action. We cannot delay any longer. We must address this 


crisis of our children, to do everything we can to make sure that todays' gunshots 
are silenced tomorrow. 

Senator Biden. The essence of the statement is we have held 
hearings in the full committee establishing that somewhere in ex- 
cess, as I know you know, of 135,000 kids go to school every Mon- 
day morning packing a loaded gun. My wife is a school teacher in 
a very good public school. .22-caliber semi-automatic guns fall out 
of lockers when they are opened, bullet holes through classroom 
windows, and this is an affluent suburban neighborhood. So it is 
not just confined to inner-city, quote, "ghetto schools." This is 
across the board. 

What are some of the things you can do as public citizens to im- 
pact upon children and guns beyond doing what you do well, teach- 
ing them how to safely discharge those weapons, teaching them 
how to care for those weapons, how to figuratively and literally 
closet those weapons? Beyond that, do you all see any opportunity 
to positively impact on this problem as an organization? 

Ms. Lamson. One area that I raised earlier in my remarks is 
that NRA has been working with a number of groups, including 
members of Congress, who are beginning to raise the consciousness 
factor of what television violence is doing to young children, and 
the wealth now of studies that have been conducted and completed 
to show what really is happening to young children who, from 14 
months old forward — what kind of effect it is having on them as 
they grow older, not only, as I mentioned, in terms of seeing noth- 
ing on television that shows safe use and handling of firearms or 
firearms in terms of recreational pursuits, but simply against mis- 
use in crimes for guns as a means to have power over someone 

It does not show the effect on the victims, the victims' families, 
the scars that victims have for the rest of their lives. It doesn't nec- 
essarily really show punishment of the people that have per- 
petrated these crimes, and I truly believe that we are raising an 
entire generation of children who do not care what happens to 
other people, are completely desensitized to the effects of injury 
and death on others in their family, who have a heightened fear 
of this happening to themselves. 

I suspect that is one of the reasons why we are finding children 
taking guns to school, even though that is already illegal. I mean, 
you can't make it much tougher. It is illegal. But something is 
causing children to bring guns to school to, in essence, perpetrate 
a crime, and another set of kids going to school to protect them- 
selves. I think that in our role, as you mentioned, in terms of edu- 
cation and safety training, we can do that. 

Our members, as parents, can do a lot, as any parent could in 
instilHng practices and respect for not only firearms, but authority. 
But it is still going to be incumbent upon those people who are 
around children to begin to guide them. As I said, one of our latest 
concerns has really been what is being shown on television. 

Senator BiDEN. Well, I think that is very positive. I am happy 
to hear you say that. I would like to invite you, if you are willing — 
and I have found that whenever I have made inquiries to your na- 
tional organization or indicated that it would be useful to speak 
that you have been receptive. I would like you to invite you to con- 


sider whether or not your organization's disapprobation for dealers 
and manufacturers who don't pay as much attention, as some don't, 
by the way — I am not suggesting that all gun dealers or all manu- 
facturers, or even most, are bad, any more than when I introduced 
the medical health fraud legislation did I think all doctors were en- 
gaged in fraud, or all lawyers, or whatever. 

So, please don't do what occasionally I have found. Not that you 
have done it, but occasionally I have found when I pick up news- 
letters in my State and find because I strongly support the Brady 
bill that I want to confiscate hunting rifles — a little exaggeration 
of position. But at any rate, I don't want to go back and refight 
those battles, but figure out how to go from here. 

I would like to explore with you all whether or not there are 
some very high-profile things that you can do to communicate to 
the core membership that you have. By that I mean the people who 
rely on you the most. The people who rely on you the most are the 
manufacturers and the gun dealers, not to suggest in any way that 
that vast membership that you have does not also rely on you. 

You are a little bit like the Farm Bureau. Your insurance pro- 
gram helps a lot for membership. There are a lot of reasons why 
people belong to the NRA. You know, I mean there are a lot of good 
things, but the core membership in terms of the core of your sup- 
port is a lot of the dealers, as well as the manufacturers. 

Just as we are trying to bring, quite frankly, pressure, and you 
are a part of this now, on the entertainment industry, without 
interfering with their first amendment rights, to be more respon- 
sible, I think we should and can bring the same kind of pressure 
upon manufacturers and upon dealers and retail outlets without af- 
fecting their second amendment rights. 

So I would like to explore some of those with you at a later date, 
if you are inclined to do so, if your organization is, and that is an 
open invitation to do that and I am anxious to do it if you want 
to, and I understand if you don't want to. 

Ms. Lamson. I think that we would be delighted to accept an in- 
vitation to discuss. I mean, if nothing else, I think discussion is a 
very good approach to either finding that which we can do together 
in common or see why there is difference or problems with it. 

Senator Biden. I want to make it clear this has nothing to do 
with any reservation I have about this legislation, which I strongly 
support, but I think you could help change the atmosphere in a 
very positive way. I am not laying the responsibility on you, but 
I think you could be a major player, your organization, in helping 
change this atmosphere. Something has to be done. 

I am being anecdotal, I acknowledge, but tens of thousands of 
teachers, I am sure, have experienced this. When a kid in tenth 
grade walks up to my wife and suggests, because he likes her, he 
wants her to buy a pearl-handled Derringer for her own safety— 
and my wife thought he was kidding, and 3 days later he is ar- 
rested because there is a kid walking across a foot bridge in Wil- 
mington, Delaware, where another kid walks up, 13 years old, puts 
a gun in the back of his head and blows his brains out. It turns 
out one of the three people arrested was this young man. Whether 
he is guilty or not, I don't know— the same kid who comes up and 


says, I got one for my grandmom; I really like you, Ms. Biden, and 
I think you should have one. 

You know, I mean something is really sick in this society. Some- 
thing has to be done about handguns without repealing the second 
amendment, and I think there are a lot of things that can be done, 
but I would like to explore some of them with you. 

Thank you very much. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much. Senator Biden. 

Did you want to make a comment? 

Senator Moseley-Braun. Well, yes. You had mentioned in re- 
sponse to Senator Cohen that the NRA. does education and safety 
training in conjunction with school systems and police depart- 
ments, and I am wondering, do you have any such programs under- 
way in Illinois, which is my State? 

Ms. Lamson. I would have to get back with you because that in- 
formation I don't have right at hand. I would think so, but I would 
like to check first. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. OK, but you will check and will advise 
me whether or not you have anything underway in Illinois, or any 
plan to undertake such a thing. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much. Senator Moseley-Braun, 
and thank you very much, Ms. Lamson. You have been very, very 
helpful and we are looking forward to working with you to com- 
plete the bill and get it passed. I am very encouraged by your sup- 
port — tentative support, but I am very encouraged by it. 

Ms. Lamson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you. 

Our next guest, of course, needs no introduction here. She is 
Sarah Brady, who, with her husband, Jim, is the chief architect of 
the Brady bill to require a waiting period and a background check 
before the purchase of a handgun, and a background check on all 
firearms purchases. 

Today, Sarah Brady is here appearing in her capacity as Chair 
of Handgun Control and its affiliate, the Center to Prevent Hand- 
gun Violence. She is joined her today by Dennis Hennigan, the gen- 
eral counsel for the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. 

We are really pleased to have you here today. Sorry to keep you 
waiting, but we would like to take your testimony and ask you a 
couple of questions, Sarah. 


Mrs. Brady. Let me first of all thank you. It is a pleasure and 
honor to be here, and I would like to begin, Mr. Chairman, by com- 
mending you and the other members of this subcommittee for your 
interest in this subject. 

As the Chair of Handgun Control, Inc., and the Center to Pre- 
vent Handgun Violence, I share your concern regarding the prob- 
lem of children and gun violence. As you and some of the other wit- 
nesses earlier in the day have made clear, we are facing an unprec- 
edented problem, an unprecedented level of juvenile violence in this 
country, and it is just the overall crime rate; it is the severity of 


the crimes that are being committed. Fights and simple assaults 
have given way to rapes, robberies, killings. Juvenile homicides, in 
particular, are on the rise. The rate of criminal homicide for 15 
year olds increased by 217 percent between 1985 and 1991. 

As the parent of a 14-year-old myself, I am increasingly appre- 
hensive about the safety of our children, and let me add that they 
are, also. I, as a parent, am not alone. I know we have looked at 
the Harris poll, but I would like to reiterate some of those figures 
just released last week. 

We found that 77 percent of adults, including 58 percent of gun 
owners, believe that children are in danger by guns. One in five 
parents said they have or know someone who has a child who was 
wounded or killed by another child who had a gun. 

Much of the increase in juvenile violence is being committed with 
guns. Between 1980 and 1990, there was a 79-percent increase in 
the number of juveniles committing murder with guns. In New 
York City, arrests on gun charges of children aged 7 to 15 rose by 
75 percent between 1987 and 1990. 

The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence is today releasing a re- 
port, and I think you already have a copy in the record, "Kids Car- 
rying Guns." The Center's report contains a number of very dis- 
turbing findings about State and Federal regulation of handgun 
possession by juveniles. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I 
would like to have the full text of that report submitted into the 

Senator KOHL. Without objection, it will be done. 

[The report referred to above follows; another report, "Children 
and Guns: Sensible Solutions," by David B. Kopel, is retained in 
the subcommittee files.] 

Mrs. Brady. But I want to summarize briefly some of the key 
findings of that report. Despite the rise in handgun violence among 
juveniles, handgun possession by minors in many areas of this 
country is not prohibited. While Federal law prohibits sale of hand- 
guns to minors under the age of 21, there is no Federal law ban- 
ning their possession by minors. Although many States limit the 
carrying of concealed weapons, the majority of States fail to ban 
the open possession of handguns by all persons under 21, and only 
13 States prohibit all minors from possession. Fifteen States pro- 
hibit the open possession of handguns by those 17 and below, while 
the remaining 22 States permit the open carrying of handguns by 
some or all persons under age 18. 

Those, Mr. Chairman, are the key findings of the Center's report. 
Having made those observations, let me express today my utmost 
support for what you are attempting to do here. The legislation 
that you are proposing is a very positive step forward. Prohibiting 
children from possessing handguns, except while under the direct 
supervision of an adult, is a sensible, life-saving measure, and we 
stand firmly behind the intent and direction of your legislation. 

It would not only save many innocent lives, it would also help 
to reduce the climate of fear in which many children and their par- 
ents now live. We recommend, however, that the age be raised from 
18 to 21. An age requirement of 21 would be consistent with the 
Gun Control Act of 1968, which prohibits the sale or delivery of 
handguns by dealers to persons under 21 years of age. 


Also, a lower age limit would dilute the effectiveness of the legis- 
lation. As the Center's report makes clear, while gun violence 
among young juveniles is serious and growing, it does not approach 
the level of violence among those older than 18, but less than 21 
years of age. 

In summary, we strongly support Federal legislation barring ju- 
veniles from possessing handguns without adult supervision, and 
we strongly recommend that the prohibition extend to all juveniles 
under the age of 21. 

Let me conclude, Mr. Chairman, by again thanking you and the 
other members of this subcommittee for your interest in this sub- 
ject. We look forward to working with you in developing legislation 
that will address the growing problem of children and guns. 

[Mrs. Brady submitted the following:] 

Prepared Statement of Sarah Brady 

Mr. Chairman, let me begin today my commending you and the other members 
of the subcommittee for your interestin this subject. As the Chair of both Handgun 
Control, Inc., and its affiliate organization, the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, 
I share your concern reg£irding the problem of children and gun violence. 

During the last decade, there was, as the FBI has described it, "an unprecedented 
level of juvenile violence," in this country. Even more disturbing than the rising in- 
cidence of crime is the intensity and character of the crimes being commit- 
ted. Vandalism has given way to increased theft and larceny, while assaults have 
given way to rapes and killings. 

The trend is clear. Both the perpetrators and the victims of violent crimes in this 
country are getting younger and younger. As the parent of a 14-year-old child, I am 
increasingly apprehensive about the safety of our children. And I am not alone. A 
Lou Harris Poll released last week found that 77 percent of adults— including 58 
percent of gun owners — beUeve that children are endangered by guns; only 29 per- 
cent believe that most children are safe from violence in the schools. One in five 
parents said they have or know someone who has a child who was wounded or killed 
by another child who had a gun. 

And crime statistics amplify the concerns expressed in public opinion polls. Con- 
sider these findings: 

• The overall rate of violent crime by juveniles is on the rise. The violent crime 
arrest rate for juveniles aged 10-17 rose by 27 percent between 1980 and 1990. 

• Juvenile homicide, in particular, is on the rise. According to a Northeastern 
University report, arrest rates for criminal homicide among 13-14 year old 
males increased by 140 percent between 1985 and 1991. Among 15 year old 
males the increase was 217 percent; among 16 year old males, 158 percent; for 
17 year old males 121 percent, and for 18-20 year old males 131 percent. 

• More and more juvenile crime is being committed with guns. Between 1980 and 
1990 there was a 79-percent increase in the number of juveniles committing 
murder with guns. In New York City, arrests on gun charges of children ages 
7 to 15 rose by 75 percent between 1987 and 1990. 

• Juveniles are the greatest victims of the rise in juvenile crime. People between 
the ages of 16 and 24 are more likely to be victims of handgun crime than any 
other group. Firearms are now the second leading cause of death for youths 
aged 15-19. The rate of firearm homicide for that age group rose 141 percent 
between 1985 and 1990. 

The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence is today releasing a report on "Kids Car- 
rying Guns." The Center's report contains a number of very disturbing findings 
about state and Federal regulation of handgun possession by juveniles. With your 
permission, Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the full text of that report submit- 
ted into today's record. 

But let me summarize what I think are some of the key findings of that report: 

• Despite the rise in handgun violence among juveniles, handgun possession by 
minors in many areas of this country is not prohibited. While Federal law pro- 
hibits sale of handguns to minors under the age of 21, there is no Federal law 
banning their possession by minors. 


• Although many states limit the carrying of concealed weapons, the majority of 
states fail to ban the open possession of handguns bv all persons under 21. 

• Only 13 states and the District of Columbia directly prohibit all minors under 
21 from openly canying handguns. 

• 115 states prohibit the open possession of handguns by those 17 and below, but 
permit open carrying by 18 to 20 year olds even though the murder arrest rate 
for 18 and 19 year olds is higher than for any other age group. 

• The remaining 22 states permit the open carrying of handguns by some or all 
persons under age 18. 

Those Mr. Chairman are the key findings of the Center's report. Having made 
those observations, let me express today my utmost support for what you are at- 
tempting to do here. The legislation that you are introducing— the Juvenile Gun Vi- 
olence Prevention Act of 1993— is a very positive step forward. 

Prohibiting children from possessing handguns, except while under the direct su- 
pervision of an adult, is a sensible, life-saving measure and we stand firmly behind 
the intent and direction of your legislation. It would not only save many innocent 
lives, it would also help in some measure to reduce the climate of fear in which 
many children and their parents now live. 

We recommend, however, that the age be raised from 18 to 21. An age require- 
ment of 21 would be consistent with the Gun Control Act of 1968 which prohibits 
the sale or delivery of handguns by "any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, 
licensed dealer, or licensed collector" to persons under 21 years of age. But it is not 
just a matter of legal consistency. The very same concerns that led Congress in 1968 
to prohibit the sale of handguns to minors under the age of 21 apply with equal 
vigor to the possession of handguns. 

Adoption of a lower qualifying age — 18 or even younger — would dilute the effec- 
tiveness of this legislation. As the Center's report makes clear, while gun violence 
among young juveniles is serious and growing, it does not approach the level of vio- 
lence among those older than 18 but less than 21 years of age. And that is especially 
true for the more violent crimes, including murder. 

In summary, we strongly support Federal legislation barring juveniles from pos- 
sessing handguns without adult supervision and we strongly recommend that the 
prohibition extend to all juveniles under the age of 21. 

Let me conclude, Mr. Chairman, by again thanking you and the other members 
of this subcommittee for your interest in this subject. We look forward to working 
with you in developing legislation that will address the growing problem of children 
and gun violence. 




Loooholes In State And Federal Firearms Laws 


1225EyeStreet,N\V, Suite 1100 

Washington, D.C. 20005 


lunc, 1993 


Founded in 1983. the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence is a national 
non-profit organization working to reduce firearms deaths and injuries through education, 
research and legal advocacy. The programs of the Center complement the legislative 
initiatives of its sister organization, Handgun Control, Inc. Sarah Brady chairs both 

Through its Legal Action Project, the Center participates in litigation on behalf of 
victims of gun violence and advocates legal principles that will ultimately reduce the 
accessibility of firearms to those likely to misuse them - convicted felons, minors, and 
other high-risk persons. 

This report was prepared by the staff of the Legal Action Project under the 
supervision of Dennis Henigan, Project Director. Judith Bonderman, Staff Attorney, wrote 
the report with the invaluable research assistance of Eric Gorovitz, the Project's Legal 
Intern. Ken Williams designed and produced the final report. Special thanks go to Shawn 
Taylor for graphic design and to Staff Attorney Gail Robinson for editorial assistance. The 
cover illustration is by Jeff Williams in Springfield, Missouri. 

1993 Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, Washington, D.C. 











In the summer of 1992, Phoenix Mayor Paul Johnson was shocked to find that 
Arizona's gun control laws gave police no authority to stop teenagers who were openly 
carrying firearms. Gang members, some as young as 13 and 14, came to a neighbor- 
hood crime control meeting with guns strapped to their hips. And it was perfectly legal 
for them to do so. While Arizona law prohibited the sale or furnishing of firearms to 
minors without parental consent and barred all persons from carrying concealed 
weapons, it did not prohibit anyone, including juveniles, from possessing and/or carrying 
unconcealed firearms. 

In response to this loophole in Arizona law, the cities of Phoenix, Glendale, and 
Apache Junction enacted legislation requiring minors to obtain written parental permission 
before they could carry firearms.^ These laws were designed to permit preventive 
intervention against teenagers, including gang members, who were openly displaying 
fireamns in these cities. The public safety rationale for these laws was obvious to the 
police and the communities involved, and public approval ratings were high.^ In fact, 
over 75% of law enforcement officers polled thought the law should be more restrictive. 
[See Attachment A] 

^ "Firearm" is defined in the ordinances as any loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver, rifle, or shotgun. 
It does not include air rifles, air pistols, or BB guns. 

^ In a poll taken by The Arizona Republic in November 1992, 74% of the 608 adults responding 
favored the written parental consent law. 


Support for these laws was not, however, universal. In spite of the fact that the 
ordinance was being effectively used by the police - 124 firearms were seized from 
minors in Phoenix in the first 12 months after passage of the law - the National Rifle 
Association financed a court challenge to the ordinances. In Saathoff v. City of Phoenix .^ 
the named plaintiffs, 
some as young as 11 
years old, alleged that 
the locaJ ordinances 
were preempted by state 
law and that no munici- 
pality could pass gun 

control measures more Repnmcd by PcmnsMon Inhunc Mcdm Srr^ire^ 

Strict than provided for in state law. The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, joined by 
four Arizona police groups,^ filed an amicus curiae brief in support of the cities, and in 
December 1992, the Maricopa County, Arizona Superior Court upheld the local 
ordinances.^ [See Attachment B] 

Maricopa County, Arizona, Superior Court, CV 92-18805. 

^ The Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police, the Arizona State Lodge of the FratemaJ Order of 
Police, the Associated Highway Patrolmen of Arizona, and the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association. 

The state legislature responded by amending the Arizona Code to include a provision prohibiting 
minors under 18 from carrying or possessing firearms except when under adult supervision The new 
law, §13-31 1 1 , applies only to counties with more tfian 500,000 persons and f>ermrts other counties to 
adopt Identical ordinances. 



The need for the local legislation in Arizona was amply supported by crime 

statistics. In 1991, 2,093 teens under 18 were arrested for violent crime in Arizona, an 

89% increase over 1989.^ In 1991 in Phoenix alone, there were at least 1200 incidents 

of aggravated assault committed by armed juveniles/ 

Unfortunately, Arizona's recent experience with juvenile violent crime is not unusual. 
While the Arizona case placed a spotlight on the problem of kids carrying guns, similar 
concerns also surfaced in other states. 

* In Kansas, it is illegal to sell a handgun to a minor under 18, but neither 
possession nor open carrying by minors is prohibited. In March 1993, the Wichita 
City Council barred minors under 18 from possessing any firearms unless 
supervised by a parent or guardian. The Council acted in response to the 
perception that the city was becoming plagued by "gangs and drugs and guns and 
poverty and a society that's coming apart," and to the failure of state law to provide 
adequate protection from these problems.® [See Attachment C] 

* Colorado state law regulates neither the open carrying of firearms nor the 
possession of guns by minors. Parents of child murder victims and others 
concerned with teenage crime organized a group called "Parent's United - No 
Children's Handguns" [PUNCH!]. The group, which now has over 1000 members. 

^ In 1989, 1108 teens under 18 were arrested for violent crime in Arizona. U.S. Department of 
Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in tfie United States 1989 at 229, Tabde 63. Compare the 
1991 Uniform Crime Reports at 270, Tat)le 68. 

' Memo of 4/30/92 from Phoenix Police Chief Dennis A. Garrett to Assistant City Manager Sheryl L 

Suzanne Perez, "A matter of law, order, politics," Wichita Eagle. Mar. 14. 1993 at lA. 



seeks passage of a bill that would prohibit possession of firearms by minors. A 

bill was introduced in the state legislature but several major flaws in the bill caused 

it to die in the 1993 session. [See Attachment D] 


The Legal Action Project of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence conducted a 
survey of state laws to determine if the states of Arizona, Kansas, and Colorado were 
unique in permitting open possession of guns by minors. This report, which includes the 
results of that survey, is not intended to answer every question about state gun laws, but 
only to identify states which inadequately regulate open carrying and possession of 
handguns by minors. Our study concentrated on handguns because of their high use 
in crime^ and their popular appeal to juveniles. 

Our findings can be summarized as follows: 

* Although many states limit the carrying of concealed weapons, the majority 
of states fail to ban the open possession of handguns by all persons under 

* Only 13 states and the District of Columbia directly prohibit all minors under 
21 from openly carrying handguns. 

^ Of the 14,265 firearms murder victims in the United States in 1991, 11,411 died from handguns, 
wtiBe only 1854 were killed with shotguns or rifles. U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of 
Investigation, Crime in the United States 1991. Tat)le 2.9. p. 17. Released on August 30, 1992, these 
Uniform Crime Reports are the most recent published data avaflable. 

75-909 0-94-4 


* 15 states prohibit the open possession of handguns by those 1 7 and below, 
but permit open carrying by 18 to 20-year-olds even though the murder 
arrest rate for 18 and 19-year-olds is higher than for any other age group. 

* The remaining 22 states permit the open carrying of handguns by some or 
all persons under 18. 

* Moreover, there is no federal prohibition on open carrying or possession of 
handguns by minors. 

The nev\re media has already succeeded in raising public awareness about 
escalating juvenile violence. The purpose of this report is to educate the public about the 
failure of our lawmakers to address this crisis adequately. The model legislation included 
at the end of this report is designed to aid legislators in fashioning an appropriate 
response to the problem of "gun-toting" kids. 


During the 1980's, the nation faced "an unprecedented level of juvenile violence," 
according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. ''° Minors across the country were not 
simply committing acts of delinquency, like breaking windows, or property crimes such 
as theft and larceny; they were robbing, raping, and killing.'^ 

^° Id. at 279-89. 

" The severity of the juvenile criminai activity led many prosecutors to seek transfer of cases from 
the state juvenile justice system to adult courtrooms. R. Howe, "Va Panel Links Violent Crime, Rise in 
Juveniles Tried as Adults," The Washington Post, 11/10/92. E3. 



Recent F.B.I, statistics reveal disturbing trends in the commission of violent crimes 

by juveniles ages 10-17.^^ The violent crime arrest rate for these minors in 1990 

exceeded the 1980 rate by 27 percent." In part, this trend resulted from a 79 percent 

inaease in the number of juveniles ages 10-17 who committed murders with guns over 

the same period. In 1990, nearly 75% of these juvenile murder offenders used guns, 

primarily handguns,^" for their crimes.'^ In addition, in 1990, juvenile violation of 

weapons laws surged to its highest level ever.''^ 

Although the causes of the increase in juvenile violence are many and complex, 

"the biggest difference in today's atmosphere is that the no-problem availability of guns 

in every nook of the nation has turned record numbers of everyday encounters into 

deadly ones."^' Disputes once settled with fists are now settled with guns. As the head 

of the Virginia State Task Force on Violent Juvenile Crime explained, "A lot of these kids 

go to bed at night listening to gunfire outside their windows, so the behavioral norms 

become skewed. "^^ 


Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in the United States 1991 at 279. 

'* The great majority of firearms used in crime are handguns For example, 80% of the guns used 
in murders committed in 1991 were handguns. Id. at 17. Table 2.9. 

^^ Id at 279. 

^^ Id at 283 

'^ Witkin, et ai "Kids who Kill," U.S. News and World Report. Vd 110. No 13. 4/8/91 ; see also 
Henkotf. 'Children in Crisis.' Fortune. 8/10/92. pp. 62-69. 

^® Jerrauld C. .Jones, Democratic state legislator from Norfolk, Va and head of the state task force 
Quoted in R. Howe. "Va. Panel Links Violent Crime, Rise in Juveniles Tried as Adults," The Washington 
Post. 11/10/92, E3, 


Moreover, the juvenile offender of today is astonishingly young. According to The 
New York Times, arrests on gun charges of children ages 7 to 15 in New York City 
increased 75% betv/een 1987 and 1990.'® A Northeastern University report of 
nationwide statistics found that between 1985 and 1991 , arrest rates for criminal homicide 
increased among 13 to 14-year-old males by 140 percent, among 15-year-old males by 
217 percent, among 16-year-old males by 158 percent, among 17-year-old males by 121 

percent, and among 18 to 20-year-olds by 113%. 


Arrest Rates for Criminal Homicides per 100,000 Males 
1985-1991 Comparison 




'Recent Trends in Violent Crime: A Closer Look', by Glenn L Pierce and James Alan Fox 
Nonheastem University. National Oime Analysis Program, Oaober 1 99 1 

19 . 

Mowing Down Our Children,' T?7e New York Times, Editorial Page, 11/4/92. 


Pierce and Fox. "Recent Trends in Violent Crime: A Closer Look," National Crime Analysis 
Program, Northeastem University, October 1992, Table 3. 



Criminologists James Alan Fox and Glenn Pierce concluded that the "new youth 
generation has more dangerous drugs in their bodies, more deadly weapons in their 
hands and are being socialized into a culture having a far more casual attitude towards 

This increase in juvenile violence occurred during a time when the total number of 

persons ages 13 to 17 in the population was failing. While the national population of 

children ages 13 to 17 decreased 4.9% from 1987 to 1991. the number of children in that 

age group arrested for murder and nonnegligent manslaughter increased nationally by 

almost 67%. 

Arrests for Murder and Nonnegligent 

Manslaughter, Ages 13-17 

1987- 1991 

Source: FBI Unifcvm 
Crime R*p«xtl. U^. 
Cenwn Burcju 

Arrest Increase: 66.8% 
Population Decrease: 4.9% 

Although the sensational increase in violence among younger children makes the 
news almost daily, 18 to 20-year-olds are still the most serious problem , as 

shown by the chart on page 7. The murder arrest rate for 18 and 19-year-olds is higher 
than for any other age group, according to age-specific arrest rates compiled by the U.S. 


Press Release, Northeaslem University (Oct 14, 1992) 


Department of Justice for 1990.^ Moreover, looking at the distribution by age of the total 

arrests in 1991 for murder and nonnegiigent homicide, the highest percentage of arrests 

for ages 21 and under are clustered in ages 18, 19, and 20.^ Also, in 1991, the arrest 

rate for 18, 19, and 20-yearHDlds for weapons violations was 389.9 per 100,000, roughly 

4 times the rate reported for all other age groups combined (94.2 per 100,000). [See 

Attachment E] 

Juvenile violence affects an ever-increasing number of youngsters, not only as 

perpetrators, but also as victims and witnesses. People between the ages of 16 and 24 

are more likely to be victims of handgun crime than any other age group.^* Rrearm 

homicides are the second leading cause of death (after traffic accidents) for all youngsters 

ages 15-19 and are the leading cause of death for black males ages 10-34.^ Between 

1985 and 1990, the firearm homicide death rate for 15 to 19-year-oids increased 141 



'Age-Specific Arrest Rates and Race-Specific Arrests Rates for Selected Offenses 1965-1988," 
U.S. Department of Justice, Uniform Crime Reporting Program, April 1990. 


See U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crime in the United States 1991. 
Table 38, p. 223. 

"Handgun Crime Victims," U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, July 1990, 
p. 3. 

Lois Rngertiut "Fireami Mortality Among Children, Youth, arxJ Young Adults 1-34 Years of Age. 
Trends and Current Status: United States. 1985-90.' Advance Data, National Center for Health Statistics, 
3/23/93, p. 6. 

^ Id. at 9. 



Death Rates: Firearm Homicide 
Aees 15 -19, 1985-1990 

° (per 100,000) 

1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 

TTiese statistics make dear the increasingly vital importance of limiting the ability ot 
juveniles, including older teens and 2Q-vear-olds . to carry or possess handguns. 


in enacting the federal Gun Control Act of 1968, Congress recognized the problem 

of handgun sales to juveniles. Specifically, Congress found that: 

there is a causal relationship betv^/een the easy availability of firearms other 
than a rifle or shotgun and juvenile and youthful criminal behavior, and that 
such firearms have been widely sold by federally licensed importers and 
dealers to emotionally immature, or thrill-bent juveniles a nd minors prone to 
criminal behavior ... 

(Public Law 90-351, Section 901 (a) (6) [emphasis added]). The statute, 18 U.S.C. 

§922(b)(1), prohibits the sale or delivery of handguns by "any licensed importer, licensed 


manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector" to persons under 21 years old. Rifles 

and shotguns, wtiich are often used for hunting and shooting sports, can be legally sold 

to anyone over 18 years of age. The statute does not prohibit the sale or delivery of 

firearms to a minor by anyone who is not a federal firearms licensee. 

In addition, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) makes it unlawful for certain classes of persons - 
those with criminal felony backgrounds, drug dependencies, or a history of commitments 
to a mental institution - "to possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammuni- 
tion" or "to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in 
interstate or foreign commerce." Minors are not one of the classes of persons prohibited 
from "possessing" or "receiving" firearms under Section 922(g). There is, therefore, no 
existing federal bar to the acquisition of a firearm by a minor from someone who is not 
a federally licensed firearms dealer so long as the transaction is in compliance with state 
and local law. Moreover, the federal act contains no restrictions on the possession of 
firearms by minors. 

This loophole is at odds with the principal purpose of the Act: "to curb crime by 
keeping 'firearms out of the hands of those not legally entitled to possess them because 
of age, criminal background, or incompetency.'" Huddleston v. United States . 415 U.S. 
814, 824 (1974) (emphasis added). As the statistics in Section 1 of this report indicate, the 
federal Gun Control Act passed 25 years ago, has not succeeded in keeping firearms out 
of the hands of minors, due to this significant loophole . 




Although most states regulate the concealed carrying of a handgun, a shocking 
number of statutory schemes permit the open carrying of handguns by minors. This 
section presents the results of our survey of the current status of regulation in each state. 
While the complexity of handgun regulation makes categorization of state laws difficult, 
some generalizations are possible. 

* Only thirteen (13) states and the District of (Columbia bar open carrying of 
handguns by all persons under 21 ^ 

* Fifteen (1 5) states limit possession or carrying of handguns by minors under 
IS, but allow open carrying by the dangerous 18 to 20-year-old group. 

* Twenty-two (22) states permit the open carrying of handguns by some or 
all persons under 18. 

Thus, the majority of state gun laws do not fill the loophole left by the federal law's 
limited prohibition on sales to minors by federally licensed dealers. Some state laws 
purport to limit handgun possession by minors indirectly by outlawing secondary sales, 
and transfers or gifts of handguns to minors. But restrictions on sale or transfer do not 
adequately limit the ability of minors to carry handguns openly. They impose sanctions 
only on the transferor, not against the minor who possesses the handgun. In some of 
these states, unless local governments take action, a police officer who sees a thirteen- 


21 years is used as the cut-off mark because federal law already prohibits sales of fiarxlguns by 
federally licensed dealers to persons under 21 


year-old walking down a street with a handgun on his hip cannot stop the teenager or 
take the gun until after the carrier commits a aime. 

Some state laws limit possession of handguns by minors under 18. While these 
laws might reflect a legislative determination that handgun possession by older minors is 
not a threat to public safety, national statistics showing a dramatic increase in the 
commission of gun-related crimes by older juveniles demonstrate that such complacency 
is seriously misplaced.^ 

^ For example, by restricting possession of firearms by minors under 18 only, the new Wichita. 
Kansas ordinance allows the most dangerous group to possess guns. The Kansas Bureau of Investiga- 
tion crime statistics for 1991 show tfiat the 18-21 year age group had the highest number of murder and 
nonnegligent manslaugfTter offenders (45) - higher than the other age groups reported. (43 for ttie 22-30 
age group and 26 for the 31-40 age group). Crime in Kansas. July 1992, p. 45. 



No open 
by minors 
under 21 

No open 
by minors 
under 18 


by some or 
all under 18 








No open carrying of a pistol for any age (Code of Ala. § 13A-11-52).^ 


Illegal for any age to carry a weapon readily available for use with a 
purpose to employ it against a person (Ark. Stat. Ann. §5-73-120).*' 


No open carrying of loaded firearm for any age (Cai. Penal Code 

District of Columbia 

No possession without registration certificate (D.C. Code § 6-2311); no 
certificate may be issued to a minor under 21, except with parental 
assumption of liability for 18-21 year olds (D.C. Code § 6-2313(a)). 


No open carrying for any age (Fla. Stat. § 790.053).^ 


■[N]o person shaJI carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control 
..."(§ A-11-52), Alabama law (§l3A-11-76) prohibits any person from delivering a pistol to a minor 
under the age of 18; no law on possession; carrying concealed is permitted with a license (§3A-1 1 -73) 

^ Arkansas law prohibits possession of a handgun by minors under 1 8 (Ark Stat. Ann. § 5-73- 
119(a)(1)(A)). Police may disarm, without arresting, a minor in possession of a handgun (§5-73-110). 


Califomia law prohibits the possession of a concealable firearm by a minor (Cal. Penal Code 

Person must be 21 to get a license to carry a concealed handgun (Ra. Stat. §790.06) Rorida 
law cUso p)rohibits the transfer or fumishing of a pistol to a minor under 18 without parental fjermission 
(Ra. Stat. §790.17). 



No carrying, open or concealed, without a license (O.C.G.A. § 16-11- 
128(a)); no license granted to anyone under 21 (O.C.G.A. § 16-11- 


No canning, open or concealed, without license (Hi. Stat. § 134-6); license 
granted only where urgent need demonstrated, and then only to applicants 
over 20 (Hi. Stat. § 134-9(a)).*' 


Illegal to buy, borrow or otherwise receive a concealable handgun without 
a permit (R.S. Mo. §571.080); no permit granted to anyone under 21 (R.S. 
Mc. §571.090).^ 

New York 

Illegal to possess a loaded firearm outside of one's home or place of 
business (N.Y.C.LS. Pen. §265.02).^ 

It is illegal to sell or furnish a pistol to a person under 21 (Ga. Code § 16-11-101) 


Although licenses in Hawaii may be granted to persons over 20. we have dassified Hawaii as one 
of the few jurisdictions that tar op)en pxDSsession by all minors because of the strict requirements for 
showing need 


In Missouri, a minor in possession of a handgun would have committed the crime of illegal 
transfer unless a permit for the gun was on file with the sheriff. 


New York does not allow possession of firearm by anyone under 16 (N.Y.C.LS. Pen. § 265.05); it 
is unlawful to sell a firearm to anyone under 19 who does not possess a license (N.Y.C.LS. § 265.16). 


Rhode Island 

No carrying, open or concealed, without license (R.I. Gen. laws § 11-47-8); 
no license granted to anyone under 21 (R.I. Gen. Laws § 11-47-18).^ 

South Carolina 

Persons under 21 years old may not possess or acquire a pistol except as 
a temporary loan while under the immediate supervision of a parent or adult 
instructor (S. Ca. §16-23-30). 


Unlawful for person of any age to carry openly "with intent to go armed" 
(Tenn. Code Ann. 39-17-1307).^ 


Unlawful for person of any age to carry a handgun, openly or concealed, 
except in special circumstances (Tex. Pen. Code § 46.02).^ 



Unlawful for person of any age to carry a loaded firearm on a public street 
(Ut. Code Ann. § 76-10-505).'" 


Possession of firearms by minors under 15 prohibited except wfifle engaged in firearms training 
course (R.I. §1 1 -47-33); illegal to sell a pistol or revolver to anyone under 21 (R.I. §1 1 ^7-30, 1 1 -47-37, 


But note tfiat it is lav»rful, in Tennessee, to carry openly an unloaded firearm with ammunition 
inaccessitjie or with a permit to carry Issued by the police (39-17-1308). No age limit is specified al- 
though there are other stringent requirements for safety training and liability insurance. As a practical 
matter, teenagers canying firearms would be stopped by the police for "canying with the intent to go 


It is, however, legal to carry a rifle or shotgun openly in Texas. It is illegal to transfer a handgun 
to a minor under 18, but there is no restriction on possession by minors. 


In Utah, it is illegal for a minor under the age of 18 to possess a dangerous weapon including a 
firearm, without parental permission (§76-10-509). 




Carrying or possession of firearms by minors under 18 prohibited except in 
certain supervised situations (A.R.S. §13-3111); othenwise open carrying is 
permitted (A.R.S. § 13-3102(F)).'*^ 


No possession of a conceaiable firearm by anyone under 18 (111. Crim. Code 
§ 24-3.1). 


No carrying of a handgun without a license (ind. Code Ann. § 35-47-2-1); 
no license issued to anyone under 18 (Ind. Code Ann. § 35-47-2-3). 


No open carrying within city limits without a permit (la. Code § 724.4); must 
be 18 to get a permit (§724.8(1)).'" 

These states do not have blanket prohibitions on open canning by all persons. 


This new section of the Arizona code was signed into law in May 1993 and applies only to 
counties with populations of more than 500,000 persons. It was enacted in response to the lawsuit 
discussed in the Introduction to this report 

^ The Iowa statute permrts anyone to carry openly beyond city limits. Iowa law prohibits the sale 
or transfer of a handgun to anyone under 21 (la. Code §724.22(2)); the law also prohibits possession by 
anyone under 14 except while directly supervised by someone over 21 (la Code § 724.22). 



No wearing, carrying, or transporting of handguns, concealed or open, 
without a permit (Md. Ann. Code art. 27 § 36B(b)); permits are not issued 
to anyone under 18 (Md. Ann. Code art. 27 § 36E(a)(1)).'" 


Firearm ID card is needed to possess legally and a license is needed to 
carry outside one's residence or place of business (Mass. Ann. Laws Chap. 
140, §131); parental permission is required if one is between the ages of 15 
and 18; no license is issued to anyone under 15 (§140-1298).^ 



No purchasing, carrying or transporting of a pistol without a license (M. C. 
L § 28.422 Sec. 2 (1)); licenses are not issued to anyone under 18 (M. C. 
L § 28.422 Sec. 2 (3)(a)). 


No possession of a pistol by anyone under 18 unless supervised by a 
parent or guardian (Minn. Stat. § 624.713); carrying of weapons without a 
permit is prohibited and permits are not issued to anyone under 18 


No possession of a handgun by anyone under 18 (Neb. §28-1204).'^ 

New Jersey 

No one under 18 may possess a firearm unless supervised by a parent, or 
for military, hunting, or target shooting purposes (N.J. Stat. 2C:58-6. 1(b)(1)). 


In Maryland, it is unlawful to sell or transfer a handgun to anyone under 18 without parental 
permission (Md. Ann. Code, art. 27 §406). 


Massachusetts law prohibits sale to anyone under 18 (Mass. Ann. Laws 140-130). 


Certificate from police is needed to purcfiase or receive transfer of a tiarxJgun. No certificate is 
needed if the transfer is from a parent or other family member (Neb. §69-2403); one must be 21 years or 
older to get the certificate (Neb. § 69-2404). 


North Dakota 

No possession by anyone under 18 unless supervised by an adult (N.D. 
Stat Ann. 62.1-02-01(4)). 


No possession by anyone under 18 except with parental consent (O.R.S. 
§ 166.250). 


Unlawful for anyone under 18 to possess a handgun except for supervised 
target shooting (HB 1603 and SB 697 signed into law by Governor Wilder 
on March 23, 1993). 

West Virginia 

No possession or carrying by minors under 18 except on private property 
and with permission of the owner or lessee (W. Va. Code § 61-7-8). 


No possession by minors under 18 except during supervised target practice 
(Wi. Code Ann. § 941.22)."' 


Wisconsin law prohibits sale to minors urxier 18. 




No ban on open carrying; no possession of a firearm by minors under 16 
without parental consent (Ak. Stat. 11.61.220 (a)(3)). 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors. 


Carrying of a pistol without a permit is prohibited; no age limit specified 
(Conn. Gen. Stat. 29-35);^ possession of loaded firearms by minors under 
16 is prohibited indirectly through gun storage provisions (§29-37c). 


No ban on open carrying; no transfer of a firearm to a minor under 16 (11 
Del. C. § 1445(2)); parent cannot permit unsupervised possession of firearm 
by child under 16 (11 Del. C. § 1445(3)). 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.'*® 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.^ 


^ The Connecticut licensing statute (§29-28) limits access to licenses to "suitable persons." but 
leaves the term undefined; transfer of pistol or revolver to a minor under 18 is prohibited (Conn. Gen. 
Stat. 29-34). 

^® Idaho does not allow transfer of a handgun to minors under 16 without consent of a parent or 
guardian (Id. Code § 18-3302A). 

^ In Kansas, it Is unlawful to sell a handgun to anyone under 18 (K.S.A. § 21 -4203(a)). 



No ban on open carrying or possession by minors. 

No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.^^ 


No ban on open carrying.^ 

Open carrying permitted (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-1); a father cannot 
permit a son under 16 to possess a handgun (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-15). 


No ban on possession by minors; it is unlawful to permit anyone under 14 
to carry or use a firearm in public (Mont. Code Ann. § 45-8-344). 


No ban on open carrying; no possession by anyone under 14 unless 
supervised by an adult (Nev. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 202.300)." 

New Hampshire 

It is unlawful to carry without a permit (R.S.A. § 159:4); a permit is issued 
only to a "suitable person" with "proper purpose" (R.S.A. § 159:6).^ 

^^ In Lxjuisiana. it is unlawful to sell any firearm to anyone urxJer 18 (La. R. S. § 14:91) 

^ In Maine, a minor under 18 cannot get a permit to carry a concealed harxjgun (Me. Stat. § 17-A- 

StaL Ann. §202.310). 

The New Harr 
a harxjgun to a minor, unless the transferor is a parent or guardian (R.S.A. 159:12) 


In Nevada, it is unlawful to sell or barter a concealable firearm to anyone under 18 (Nev. Rev. 

^ The New Hampshire statute does not define either of these terms. Also, it is unlawful to transfer 


New Mexico 

No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.^ 

North Carolina 

No ban on open carrying; it is unlawful for a parent or guardian to permit 
a child under 12 to possess or use any gun (N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-316).* 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.^ 

Open carrying permitted for a variety of purposes (21 Okl. St. § 1289.6); 
no ban on possession by minors.^ 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.^ 
South Dakota 

No ban on open carrying or possession by minors.®^ 

In New Mexico, it is unlawful for anyone under 18 to shoot a firearm unless he has passed a 
hunter safety course (N.M. Stat. Ana § 17-2-33(A)(3)). 


In North Carolina, it is unlawful to sell or otherwise provide dangerous weapons to a minor (N.C. 
Gen. Stat § 14-315). 

In Ohio, it is unlawful to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 (O.R.C. Ann. 2923.21(A)(2)). 

^ In Oklahoma, sale to minors is prohibited (§21.1273). 

In Pennsylvania, it is unlawful to deliver firearms to anyone under 18 (18 Pa. C. S. §6110). In 
Philadelphia, it is unlawful to carry a firearm on the public streets or public property (§6108). 

In South Dakota, one must be 18 years old to get a fjermit to carry a concealed weapon 
(S.Dakota §23-7-7.1). 




No ban on open carrying; unlawful for a child under 16 to possess a firearm 
without consent of parents (Vt. Crim. Code §4008). 

Washington State 

No ban on open carrying; unlawful for a minor under 14 to possess or use 
a firearm except under immediate adult supervision (R.C.W. §9.41 .240).^' 


No ban on open carrying or possession by minors. 

^' In Washington, it is unlawful to provide a handgun to a minor urxJer 21 (R.C.W. § 9.41.080). 




The model legislation proposed below would supplement existing federal and state 
legislation which regulates the sale of firearms by federally licensed dealers. The federal 
Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. §922(b)(1), already absolutely prohibits the sale or 
delivery of handguns (and handgun ammunition) by "any licensed importer, licensed 
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector" to persons under 21 years old, and 
of other firearms (and ammunition) to persons under 18, but does not prohibit sales and 
transfers by nonlicensees. The model legislation below applies to all persons, not just 
federal firearms licensees, and addresses secondary sales and transfers of firearms and 
ammunition to minors in Section 1 . Section 2 closes the loophole on the possession and 
use of firearms by minors. 


Section 1 : Unlawful transfer of firearms and ammunition to minors: 

(a) Without the consent of the minor's parent or legal guardian, it shall be unlawful 
for any person to sell, give, lend or otherwise transfer any handgun or handgun 
ammunition to any minor under 21 years of age, or to sell, give, lend or otherwise 
transfer any shotgun or rifle or ammunition suitable only for a rifle or shotgun to 
any minor under 18 years of age. 

Section 2: Unlawful possession of firearms and ammunition by minors: 

(a) Unless otherwise specifically provided for herein, it shall be unlawful for any 
minor under 21 years of age to possess or receive any handgun or handgun 
ammunition except while in the presence of and under the direct supervision of the 
minor's parent or legal guardian, or for any minor under 18 years of age to 
possess or receive any shotgun or rifle or ammunition suitable for a rifle or 



shotgun except while in the presence of and under the direct supervision of the 
minor's parent or legal guardian. 

(b) A minor not in the presence of the minor's parent or legal guardian may carry 
and use any lawfully acquired firearm and ammunition in the following circumstanc- 

(1) While engaged in a course of instruction in the proper use of a handgun 
or in a firearm hunting or safety education program provided that the minor 
is at all times under the direct supervision of a certified instructor who is 
twenty-one years of age or older; or 

(2) While participating in or travelling to or from a lawful hunting or target 
shooting activity or firearm safety program witii the prior permission of the 
minor's parent or legal guardian, provided that: 

a. the minor is under the direct supervision of another adult '-vho 
is not prohibited from possessing a firearm; and 

b. the firearm possessed by the minor is stored unloaded during 
transportation in such a way as to prevent its accessibinty. 

(c) A person eighteen, nineteen, or twenty years of age may possess a handgun 
and the ammunition for it while employed as a private security guard, vv'hen such 
duty requires the possession of such a weapon and the person has previously 

• received insti-uction in the proper use of a handgun from a certified instructor who 
is twenty-one years of age or older. 

(d) Any person may possess any firearm while on military duty or while employed 
by a public agency as a peace officer or correctional officer, as long as such 
possession is not in contravention of state law. 

Section 3: Penalties 

(a) Any person who violates Section 1 shall be fined not more than $5,000, 
imprisoned for not more than five years, or both. 

(b) Any person who violates Section 2 shall be fined not more than $5,000, 
imprisoned for not more than five years, or both. 

(c) Any person who has been convicted of any felony, or of any juvenile offense 
that would have been a felony if committed by an adult, and who is subsequently 
convicted of a violation of Section 2 shall be subject to imprisonment for a period 
not to exceed ten years. 

(d) Any firearm possessed by a minor in violation of Section 1 and/or Section 2 
shall be subject to immediate seizure by any [federal, state or local] law enforce- 
ment officer. 

(e) Any firearm seized pursuant to subsection (d) of this section shall remain in the 
custody of the ti-ial court. Any stolen weapon so seized and detained, when no 
longer needed for evidentiary purposes, shall be returned to the person entitied to 
possession, if known. All other confiscated firearms, when no longer needed for 
evidentiary purposes, shall be destroyed by the law enforcement agency that 
seized them. 



Law Enforcement Survey 

Do you think that a law which would restrict juveniles from carrying guns 
without written parental consent is (1) too much of a restriction on juveniles 
and guns, (2) about the right amount of restriction, or (3) not strong enough 

Too Strong 6% 

About Right 

Source: O'Neill Associates, 1 992 (Based on responses given by 
569 Phoenix area law enforcement officers) 

Public Opinion Survey 

Would you favor a law banning children under 
1 8 years of age from carrying a gun? 

Don't Know 2% 

Source: The Arizona Republic, 1 1/22/92, B 1, B5 (Based on responses by 
608 adults completed Nov. 5-8, 1 992) 



Tribune Newspapers. Friday, Decembf 4. 199 ' B3 

Gun-control group 
supporting cities' 
weapons ordinances 

By Chris Coppola by state law. The court challenge was 

Trtiunewnter £y^ on ^^^^^ oj 3 g^^p ^ niinors 

A national handgim safety group is seeking an injunction against the 

suf^xxting four Valley cities' laws. 

attempts to curtail handgun use by • Todd Julian, a Phoenix lawyer 

minors as part of today's court hear- representing the plaintiffs, said one 

ing on a challenge to the laws. argument will involve a state law 

Leaders of the Center to Prevent that specifies the issue of firearms 

Handgun Vkdence. also {banned to control is a statewide coocem that is 

hold a press conference with a group to be addressed throu^ state law. 

of Arizona law enforcement officials "We also say the local ordinances 

before the hearing in Maricopa conflict with pri<±ing state law, 

County Stqjerior Court, said Judy because under existing state law, a 

Bonderman, an attorney for the juvenile is allowed to carry a firearm 

Washington-based center's Legal without restrictions, and the different 

Action Project cities are passing ordinances that 

"This is the first time that we've restrict this right," be said 
dealt with a dty ordinance that does Booderman, however, said the dty 
what these do," Bonderman said. The ordinances do not take away a 
center's chairwoman is Sarah Brady, minor's right to carry a gun as 
whose husband, James Brady, was allowed by the state- 
seriously wounded in an assassination 'TTiese are larger communities, 
attempt on former President Ronald urban communities, that are seeing 
Reagan. She has become a leading the problem of teen violence rather 
national spokeswoman on gun coi> dramatically light now. Whether it's 
troL an appropriate law for the rest of Ari- 

The court challenge seeks an zona is another question," she said, 
injunction agaiinst Phoenix, Apadie "What they're doing is not in con- 
Junction and Glendale ordinaixres fhct with the state law. It serves the 


that require minors to acquire written public interests. It's not burdensome 

f>arental permission before they can to the children who want to carry 

carry a firearm. Also being coi^d- guns for certain reascwis They can get 

ered is a Tempe policy designating their parent's permission,'' she said, 
the popular area around Mill Avenue Most law enforconent leaders in 

in downtown as a special events zaoe Arizona support the bws, said Assis- 

in which, guns are prohibited on Fri- tant Tempe Police Chief Les Taylor, 

day and Saturday nights. who also is executive director of the 

All of the laws are aimed at cur- Arizona Assodaticxi of Chiefs of 

tailing what dty officials see as Police. 

alarming increases in violence among *^e're coocemed that this issue be 

juveniles, triggaed in part by a rise left to local communities to do," Tay- 

in gang activity. lor said. 

The ceiter, in a friend of the court Taylor would like to see the state 

brief, died statistics it says support Legislature enact a law to coindde 

enactment of such laws. In 1991, 30.2 vsith the local ordinances, or at least 

percent of all people arrested for allow, communities discretion to 

murder natioially were under 21, and address local concerns, 
half of those were under 18, according "I think this is one of those issues 

to FBI statistics. where law enforcement in general is 

In Arizona, 2,093 teenagers were saying we need some help," be said, 
arrested for violent crimes in 1991, an Phoenix Mayor Paul Johnson has 

89 percent increase over 1989. indicated he will seek legislative 

The laws have come under attack intervention to enact laws for the 

by the National Rifle Association and prosecution of parents who aUow 

other firearms advocates as being their children to carry guns later used 

invalid because they are superceded in cringes. 










Parems United -- No Children's Handgunsl 

Ron and Marva Plicks 


December 19, 1992 

Dear Concerned Citizen, 

Are you fed vp with the dsily carnago in this country caused 
by kids :sisusing guns? can you believe that there are no state 
la.w3 in. Colorado that prohibit a person under eighteen years old 
from owning, possessing and /or carrying a firearm? Do you feel it 
is finally ti-,e for society to wake up and react to the epidemic of 
adolescents wrecking lives with handgvns? 

If you ere interested in trying to change the view of society 
and the law with respect to teenagers and their use of guns, then 
you are hereby invited to the first for.^al rr.eeting of Parents 
United — No Children's Eandgunsl PCWCfl/ Is an organization 
dedicated to educating and influencing the public and the 
legislature concerning the issues presented by teens with g-iins'. 
You do not have to be a parent to be part of PUHCHl All you' nsed 
is concern about the problem and a willingness to help. 

The first -.GGting of PUNCEl will be held zn zhe first floor at 
the Triangle Building at 2413 Washington Street in Denver on 
Wednesday, January 6, 1993 at 6:00 p..-n. Please feel free to tell 
anybody who would like to help in cur effort that they are welcome 
to atteind this meeting. 

P.on Hicks, Marva Hicks and I lock forward to hopefully seeing 
you on JiLnuary 6, 1993 . We also wish ycu a happy and meaningful 
new year . 


Craig A. Silverman 
Legal Adviser -- PUSCHI 



U-S. Department of Justice 

Fedcrai Bureau of InvesDganon 

Age-Specific Arrest Rates 

Race-Specific Arrest Rates 


Selected Offenses 


Uniform Crime Reporting Program 

April, 1990 



The objective of this publication is to supplement C.-:me in the ^'njted States statistics 
by providing Uniforni Crime Reporting (UCR) data users •A'ith arrest statistics related to the 
age and race ot" arrestees. Age-specific arrest rates, the average ages of arrestees, and 
race-specific arrest rates are tabulated for Crime Index, violent crime, property crime, each 
Crime Index offense, and selected Part II offenses (forgery and counterfeiting, fraud, 
embezzlement, stolen property, weapons violations, sex offenses, drug abtise violations, and 
gambling) for each of the 24 years during the period 1965-1988. Included are age 
breakdowns representing juvenile and adults. 

An age-specific arrest rate refers to the number of arrests made per 100,000 inhabitants 
belonging to a prescribed age group. Technical Mote A describes the computational 
procedures used to derive age-specific arrest rates. Technical Note B describes the 
methodology used to compute the average age oi the arrestees. It is noted that the average 
age of the arrestees reflects aon-criminaJ facwrs such as the age composition of the US. 
population. Therefore, any shift in the average age of the arrestees should not be 
immediately associated with a change in criminal panem. 

A race- specific arrest rate refers to the number of arrests made per 100,000 inhabitants 
belonging to a prescribed race. Race-specii~c data used m this publication have been 
updated, and therefore, may difTer slightly from the national average as earlier released :a 
Crime in 'he United States . The rates represent that portion of the popuiauon that 
contributed race statistics relating to the given offenses. The population coverage for race 
statistics is lower t.han that for age statistics due to the historical, reporting patterns of UGR. 
arrest data. 

Murder, Age-Specific Arrest Rzzes by Sex, United States 

Age Group Total 

12 and under 










65- and over 







































































for the United States 










Federal Bureau of Invesnganon 
U.S. Department of Justice 
V^hington. D.C. 20535 

Committee on Uniform Crime Records 

Lntemanonal Associanon of Chiefs of Police: 

Comimaee on Uniform Crime Repomng 

National Sheriffs' Association: 

Uniform Cnme Reporting Data Providers Advisory Policy Boara 


For ialc bv ihc Suocnnicnacni ot Documcnis. U.S. Govcmmcni Pnnung OlTicc '■Va^nlnclun D C 2CW)2 



Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, as defined in the Uoiform Crime 
Reporting Program, is the willful (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by 

The classification of this offense, as for all other Crime Index offenses, is based 
solely on police investigation as opposed to the determination of a court, medical 
examiner, coroner, jury, or other judicial body. Not included in the count for this 
offense classification are deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accidenq justifiable 
homicides: and attempts to murder or assaults to murder, which are scored as 
aggravated assaults. 


Raze per 100.000 
Year Number of offenses inhabitaius 

1990 23.438 9.4 

1991 24.703 9.8 

Percent change +5.4 —4.3 

75-909 0-94-5 


Tb6I« JS. — Total VfToo. DiMnfavnoN bv x«c 1991 
,IU.I't jfcncica. 1941 caiimuco ?oow>ian IS9'*«I0U0I 

OTcnle ciurfU 

TOTAi ll«.7U.rS5 

MuracT UM 

Pi3f00t€ ripe — 


AOnvstCO UIMlll 



Ptooott cnBC 

Ltonor Uwi 

DtatxqciTv COIMUCI 

^ acbcT MFcma Icucoi (rallic) 


Cuncw UM Imttnot Ixw 


»J50 I 
I19.JI2 I 


























"3. 1:3 





263UI I 















1.749 JO 

109 965 
3*9 J27 







; 22.624 
















; 13.830 















MO. 74 7 

J69 992 



I 10-12 i 13-. 4 i 15 ! 16 I 1; j 

I :o I 

. I 131.417 I 421jao I 312.491 I 39«J4I 

I 1.4 I JJ I 3J I Xi 

U I 4J I 4.7 I 4.7 I 







1 465 


















1 068 












































































I 120149 

I !-3 


131.171 127.1*9 
5.1 5.6 

















32J1I I 

142 I 

1173 I 

98 i 


8.043 I 

29.410 ! 

1IS3 I 1110 I 

1D31 I 
900 i 

133 I 
143 I 


102 I 

1049 I 

f_'90 I 

11: I 


498 I 


:4joi 1 


1.191 1 


1161 1 


:ii ; 


1.610 1 


19.100 1 


9211 ! 


:7» i 




17,164 ■ 









I 3,412 i 

I '.167 I 

I 10.091 

I 304 





7J60 I 
IOJ63 I 

10.610 I 12.076 I 11.140 ! 9.994 

.39 I 


;J99 • 

8.420 I 

i4;ii ;o.65i 

1095 ■ 


:2J92 i 11,197 

'75 I 444 

!2J90 I 42.026 

181 I 622 

I i 

I 17 89) I 16937 

I '7,;e2 I .'4 753 

11629 ■ 
S22 ■ 

673 , 



:«.:47 I 33.045 

693 1,95] 

»,1!1 23.617 

'9 508 ■1.860 

•.870 I 16.809 

:s.i:o I :9j7i 

:9J I 1,106 

■1.072 I 100.902 

603 I 634 

' 1.987 
■ 33.41 5 

"1.910 1 
19_'49 : 
;9 069 

170 i 
115.632 I 

o03 ; 

1337 I 

40.041 ; 



29 471 

1 11360 j 

601 I 

:4J9» I 






















Weapon Law Violations Arrest Rates, United States, 1982 - 1991 

Arrest rata per 100,000 irJiabitants 
Source: FBI's Unifcra Crise rieporting Program 







20 1 

















207.3 1 

























291.2 j 





298.9 1 





324.3 1 

Percent Change 












i'ercent: cnange in Weapon Law Violations Arrest Rates 
United States 


U. S. Total 1 
(All Ages) 







Percent Change 





Arrest rate per 100,000 
Source: FBI Unifor.! Criae Reporting Program 

Percent Change In the Number of .Murder Offenders by Gun Usage, 
United States, 1990 CTver 1980 

U. S. Total 

Age 1 




18 19 





388 460 





741 703 







+91.0 52.8 


Note: Base<i on actual data 

Source : FBI • s Unif ora Criae Reporting Program 


Senator Kohl. Well, thank you very much, Mrs. Brady. Mrs. 
Brady, 68 percent of the NRA members support the Brady bill. 
How do you square that with the NRA's position in its home office? 

Mrs. Brady. Well, I will tell you I am not at all surprised by that 
finding in the report. For the last 8 years, I have been all over this 
country speaking to groups ever5rwhere I go. We have always 
known that 87 percent of gun owners — at least that is what the 
polls have told us — believe in the Brady bill, so that I am not at 
all surprised that this great number of NRA members also agree 
with the Brady bill. 

I think it points out the fact that they are not adequately in 
touch with their own membership and maybe do not speak for 
what many of us think are the responsible gun owners of this coun- 

Senator KOHL. Well, do you think we are going to get the Brady 
bill passed this year? What is your opinion? 

Mrs. Brady. I hope so. I think you folks up there probably know 
the timing better than I do, but we are ready. The Nation has 
called for it. These polls — everything points out the fact that people 
are afraid. We are a violent nation anymore, and our children are 
afraid to go to school. They are afraid. 

I was at a school this morning speaking out in Annandale to 
eighth-graders, and I was stunned by the fear that these children 
have, and we are talking about a suburban area. All children — my 
son is afraid. He is afraid I am going to be hurt. He is afraid he 
is going to be hurt. This is unconscionable, and as responsible 
adults we have to change this and we have to look into a com- 
prehensive, reasonable, rational policy in this country that will 
help reduce the availability of these weapons to youngsters and to 
those others already prohibited from owning them. 

Senator Kohl. Well, you know, our country, Mrs. Brady, doesn't 
have a better advocate, both in fact and in symbol, than you and 
your husband for reasonable and sane handgun control. So it is 
really an honor and a pleasure to be in your company this morning 
and I want to thank you for coming. 

Mrs. Brady. Thank you. I appreciate your kind words. 

Senator Kohl. Senator Cohen? 

Senator COHEN. No questions. Thank you for coming, Mrs. 
Brady, and I appreciate your testimony. It was very concise and 
compressed and to the point, and we appreciate your being here. 
Rather than have Senator Kohl ask you the question of when it is 
going to be passed, I think you are going to ask us that question. 

Mrs. Brady. That is correct. 

Senator Moseley-Braun. I have nothing to say, except welcome 
to the committee and thank you again for your diligent and hard 
work in this important area. 

Mrs. Brady. Well, thank you, and I might add one other thing. 
I truly believe that solving this problem can only — ^that legislation, 
of course, is not the only answer, and my organization is working 
with the Hollj'wood industry and we have a school curriculum 
which is currently in use in many cities throughout the country, 
pre-kindergarten through 12th grade, which teaches conflict resolu- 
tion, how to avoid peer pressure, how to avoid the fears. 


I bring this up mainly because the Senator from Illinois men- 
tioned that she wondered what was available in her State, and this 
will be going into the Chicago city schools this year. It is currently 
being used in New York City; L.A., in its first year; San Diego; 
Oakland, CA; Dade County, FL; New Jersey's middle schools. We 
are proud to have it going into Chicago because we do feel there 
is no one solution. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much, Mrs. Brady. Thank you 
very much, ladies and gentlemen. 

The hearing is closed. 

[Whereupon, at 12:22 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 



U.S. Senate, 
Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice, 

Committee on the Judiciary, 

Milwaukee, WI. 

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., in the Chil- 
dren's Auditorium, Children's Hospital, Milwaukee, WI, Hon. Her- 
bert Kohl, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. 


Senator Kohl. Good morning. This hearing will come to order. 
During the past few years, our country has had to cope with the 
effects of devastating natural disasters like Hurricanes Hugo and 
Andrew and, of course, most recently, the Great Flood of 1993. As 
a result of Nature's wrath, lives were lost, communities were dev- 
astated and, for many Americans, a way of life that endured for 
decades was permanently altered. 

But those were natural disasters. Today we are going to talk 
about a manmade disaster: the deadly mix of kids and handguns. 
Anyone who reads, watches television or, most importantly, talks 
to their children, will know that our Nation is facing a disaster in 
this area. Indeed, on the same day last month, both Time and 
Newsweek ran cover stories on children and youth violence. 

The effects of both natural and manmade disasters are the same, 
but the response is different. We have tolerated a level of destruc- 
tion in our streets that we would never have accepted if it had 
come from the skies. 

Just look at these charts behind me. In 1982, the total number 
of juvenile murder arrests in Wisconsin was just 12. However, by 
last year, we had an almost eight-fold increase. The number of ju- 
veniles arrested for murder in Wisconsin exploded to 94. Most of 
those murders were committed with handguns. The numbers for ju- 
venile weapons arrests are equally disheartening. In 1982, 1,162 
juveniles were arrested on weapons charges in Wisconsin. But by 
last year that number had more than doubled to 2,421. 

Again, handguns were involved in most of these arrests. As you 
can see from the charts, national statistics show a similar increase 
over the past decade, but Wisconsin's increase is worse. 

Other statistics are equally troubling. The National School Safety 
Center estimates that more than 100,000 students carry handguns 
to school every day in our country. They report that the leading 



cause of death for both black and white teenage boys in America 
is gunshot wounds. Kids from our central cities and our rural com- 
munities, kids who grow up in poverty and kids who grow up in 
middle class areas all face this problem to some considerable de- 

A world of threats and violence and a world of death. This is not 
the kind of world that our children deserve and this is not the kind 
of world that we ought to be giving them. We can change that 
world. Not easily, not quickly, not with a single, simple solution, 
but we can change it. 

First we need new laws to restrict the flow of handguns in our 
communities and to our children. To that end I recently introduced 
a Youth Handgun Safety Act. The bill would make it illegal to sell 
or to give a handgun to a minor under the age of 18 and also for 
a minor to possess a handgun under most circumstances. It is sup- 
ported by police organizations and gun control advocates, and even 
the NRA is supportive of this goal. 

I also support the Brady Bill, because it is the best way to keep 
guns out of the hands of criminals who we know should not have 

I fully expect both bills to become law sometime during this Con- 
gress. But I do not expect either bill to solve the problem by itself. 
How can they when so many of our kids come from broken homes, 
when so many are raised in front of TV sets which teach them that 
violence is a normal, natural, appropriate way to act? When guns 
and violence and crime are seen by some as the only way to get 
ahead. When some parents do not discharge their primary respon- 
sibility of supervising their kids. 

So there are many causes for this problem and, indeed, we need 
many different initiatives to solve it. If anyone tells you that gun 
control alone will solve the problem, don't believe it. But if anyone 
tells you that restrictions on handguns won't help, don't believe 
that, either. 

The witnesses we have today will discuss the diverse causes and 
consequences and responses to this problem. We have people from 
the law enforcement, medical and educational communities. We 
have people from the gun lobby and we have our friend Sarah 
Brady from Handgun Control. Each in their own way has some- 
thing to contribute to our understanding of the problem and to our 
ability to solve the problem. And they will, hopefully, address a 
wide range of approaches: increased punishment for serious offend- 
ers; additional money for crime and drug prevention programs; 
more cops on the street; less violence on TV. The list goes on and 
on. And we have to go on, too, because these are our kids and our 
kids are, in a very real sense, our future. Unless we act now, the 
future we are creating is one that too many of our kids will not live 
to see, and it will also be a future that we will not want to live 

Too often congressional hearings feature experts and academics 
but no one who has experienced the firsthand problem, and that's 
why I'm especially pleased today with our first two witnesses, 
David Ledger and Verlinda Brown. 


David is a 19-year-old resident of Greendale, WI, who's going to 
tell us about his personal experience with youth-related handgun 

Verlinda is a resident of Milwaukee, who works for Milwaukee 
County investigating child abuse. She is going to tell us how she 
was abused by two children with a gun. Their stories are tragedies 
but, sadly, not atypical. We're very pleased to have you here today 
to speak to us, and I would like to ask that you limit your oral 
statements to 5 minutes in order to ensure time for questions and 
discussion. David, would you like to begin. 



Mr. Ledger. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Hi, my name is 
David Ledger. I am 19 years old and a 1992 graduate of James 
Madison High School. I live at home and I'm saving money to go 
to college. I would like some day to major in sports medicine. My 
home is located in the city of Milwaukee near Menomonee Falls. 
The area is largely suburban. It is a racially mixed area and pre- 
dominantly middle class. It is typical of many suburbs throughout 
the United States. The type of place most people would like to call 

I am here today because on August 7, 1993, I was brutally at- 
tacked. Three of my friends and myself were at a McDonald's in 
Greenfield. Greenfield is a suburb located to the southwest of the 
city. Greenfield is much like the area I now live in. The McDonald's 
is called a Rock 'n Roll Cafe and is designed to be like a fifties-style 
drive-in restaurant. 

I saw someone going into my friend's convertible. He had reached 
into the vehicle and his hands were on the dash. As I witnessed 
this, I went out to the parking lot to investigate what was taking 
place. I felt that the person might want to grab something out of 
the convertible and having someone around would persuade him 
not to. 

It was a busy, well-lit parking lot on a Saturday night, and I did 
not expect any trouble. As I walked toward the car, I turned 
around and my friend Will was coming outside. The person was 
looking at the car and looking at us, and the next thing I knew 
there was about eight guys surrounding us. At this point in time 
I sensed that I was in trouble. Their hands formed fists and one 
individual had a beer can. One of the guys pulled a gun out of his 
waistband. He looked younger than I. 

As he pulled the gun out, he said, "Who's gonna die tonight?" I 
was shocked. We thought we were gonna die and I thought my life 
was over. I was scared and afraid. I wondered why this was hap- 
pening to me. I never hurt or threatened these people or did any- 
thing to warrant the use of a handgun. What was not a situation 
or problem whatsoever changed into a life and death confrontation. 
I did not expect the individuals to be carrying a gun. Looking back 
now, it seems sort of unreal. Something that I would expect to hap- 
pen in downtown or on the television. Not something that I would 
expect in suburban Greenfield. The person pulled a gun out of his 

75-909 0-94-6 


pants, cocked back the hammer. Just as he was doing this one of 
the guys took a swing at me, missed me and grazed my friend Will. 
I turned toward my friend Will, and I was also trying to keep my 
eyes on the guy with the gun which was still drawn and now 


I feit someone running up from behind me. The attacker 
bUndsided me and hit me in the face with brass knuckles. The at- 
tack left me with 17 stitches, eye injuries, a broken nose and facial 
scarring. I was never allowed to defend myself because this kid had 
a gun drawn and cocked. 

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here. If anyone 
has any questions, I will be happy to try and answer them. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you, David. 



Ms. Brown. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. My name is Verlinda 
Brown. I work for Milwaukee County and investigate charges of 
child abuse. It is a pleasure to be here this morning to testify be- 
fore this committee and share my experience with you. 

On January 10, 1993, at approximately 11 p.m., I stopped at a 
Quick Mart on 23d and Fond du Lac. I was driving with my 7 year 
old nephew in a neighborhood not far from the one where I live. 
I parked in the driveway in front of the store. Ordinarily I would 
never stop in this neighborhood, since it is in a bad part of the city, 
but I needed some cigarettes and decided to try the Quick Mart. 

As I was about to get out of my automobile, a young man, 12- 
or 13-years-old, grabbed the door and opened it half way. Stunned 
and still sitting in the car, I pushed the youth and he fell against 
the door. I was able to push him because he was so little. At that 
time he told his friend, a youth 14-years-old, to bring him the gun. 
The 14-year-old looked afraid and hesitated, but the 12-year-old 
was calling the shots and repeated that he wanted his friend's gun. 
The 14-year-old handed over an Uzi-type weapon and the 12-year- 
old pointed it at me. I couldn't believe that such a little kid was 
holding a gun on me. Yet, I was terrified that he was going to 
shoot, wondering what part of my body he was going to hit. I still 
don't know why he didn't shoot me. It was the worst thing that has 
ever happened to me. 

Instantly, I got out of the car and begged the youths not to shoot, 
and at least allow me to get my nephew out of the back seat. I 
grabbed my nephew who hadn't reacted to the whole incident. It 
was happening so quickly. 

Then the two kids sped off in my car. They didn t even rob me 
of my money. That evening the youths committed three other 
armed robberies and were caught the next morning. They robbed 
three elderly men. One in his seventies was so scared to testify at 
the trial that a statement had to be read in his behalf. 

Around 4 a.m. the police caught up with the two kids at one of 
their homes on 19th and Center, which is just a few blocks away 
from the Quick Mart. The trunk lock on my car was ripped off and 
all of my stuff had been thrown away. I lost some cases for my job 
and an appointment book. The kids even bought an air freshener 
to act as if they had their own car. They probably didn't even have 


driver's licenses; in fact, they couldn't have, because you need to be 
16 to obtain a driver's license in Wisconsin. 

The 12- or 13-year-old was the leader, and he received the tough- 
er sentence. He was sentenced to 6 months at Wales Correctional 
Facility in Wisconsin. He was released before the end of his term 
and sent to a group home where he presently resides. I attended 
the sentencing of the 14-year-old, who was placed on 1 year's pro- 
bation and currently is under supervision in his home. The kids 
had stolen the Uzi-type weapon from the 14-year-old's mother. At 
the trial of the 14-year-old, the mother told the judge that she had 
the gun for protection and thought that it was well hidden. The 
judge told her to remove any guns from her house. 

After the arrests, my car was returned. I had to go past the Mart 
every time I went to work and I felt like someone was looking at 
me. I also felt like the car was dirty. Every time I drove by I re- 
lived the worst day of my life. 

I feel there will always be individuals who obtain guns illegally. 
However, by passing a law to limit the availability of guns to teen- 
agers, we will hopefully be preventing some of the crimes that 
occur everyday with the use of handguns. This is of particular con- 
cern in Milwaukee due to the rapid increase of teenage violence 
and gun use. I work with a lot of kids in group homes and foster 
care. I see that some of them think it is cool to fight with weapons. 
Other kids say that things are so bad that they believe they have 
to be armed. That's not just unfortunate; it's unacceptable. We 
need to change their attitudes and their environments. 

Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to testify. 
I now would like to answer any questions you may have. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you, Verlinda. 

I would like to ask both of you: Do you think that this problem 
of kids and gun-related violence is a problem that is primarily part 
of our inner cities, or is something that applies, to a great degree, 
not only to our inner city areas but also to surrounding suburban 
areas? David, what do you think? 

Mr. Ledger. I think that it's all over. It's in the suburbs, it's ev- 
erjrwhere. Kdds get a hold of handguns and they think they're bad 
and it just spreads throughout everywhere. It started in the inner 
city and now it just spread all the way around the suburbs. It's a 
big problem. It's way out. 

Senator KOHL. Verlinda, what do you think? 

Ms. Brown. I agree with David. It's getting worse in the inner 
city, but it also is spreading everywhere. I work with not just inner 
city youths, but youths in the suburbs, and they have the same 
problem as in the inner city. 

Senator KoHL. Do either one of you think that handguns should 
be available or kids should be permitted to obtain and possess 

Mr. Ledger. I don't think so. I don't think kids should be al- 
lowed to have a handgun. I think they should be only able to oper- 
ate a handgun with supervision at a gun range or something like 
that, but only if it's supervised by an adult. 

Senator Kohl. Verlinda? 

Ms. Brown. I think kids have stopped fighting with their fists 
and the big thing now is weapons, and mainly guns, and I can't 



think of one reason why a teenager should be allowed to have a 
handgun or feel no need for them to use one. 

Senator Kohl. Do you think we will ever get to any kind of a 
solution to this problem until we have restrictions, strong restric- 
tions, that are enforced to see to it that kids don't have handguns? 
Will we ever get to a solution until we get those kinds of restric- 
tions on the books and enforce those restrictions? 

Mr. Ledger. I think that one day there's going to be a solution 
and people are going to start obeying the rules and the laws and 
everything, and we just need tougher penalties on these kids. 

Ms. Brown. Right. I agree with David. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you. Well, we appreciate your coming here. 
It is nice to have you here and, by coincidence, it's nice to see an 
old friend of mine, David's mother Pat. She and I worked together 
at Kohl's. That was many years ago. 

Mr. Ledger. My other daughter still does work at Kohl's. 

Senator Kohl. Oh, really. 

Mr. Ledger. A family tradition. 

Senator KOHL. All right. Good to see you here. Thank you for 

Mr. Ledger. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Our next panel is composed of experts in four dif- 
ferent fields: law enforcement, education, health care, and the min- 

Jim Doyle is the Attorney General of Wisconsin, the states chief 
law enforcement officer. Taking office in 1991, Jim has been a lead- 
er in the fight for handgun laws at both the state and the Federal 

Willie Jude is the principal at James Madison High School in 
Milwaukee, and he's a 22-year veteran of the Milwaukee Public 
School System. He comes to us as a parent, as an educator, and 
as someone who has spent a decade in charge of security at various 
high schools in Milwaukee. 

Dr. Halim Hennes is a pediatric emergency room physician here 
at Children's Hospital, where he has practiced for 9 years, and is 
an associate professor of pediatrics of surgery at the Medical Col- 
lege of Wisconsin. He is joined here today by Jennie Resnick, a 
trauma nurse coordinator, who is sitting behind him in the front 

Finally, Gerald Saffold is a minister for the Foundation of Prayer 
Church in Milwaukee. He is known for his work with at-risk kids, 
and his congregation is composed largely of young men and women 
under the age of 18. 

We are delighted that all of you could be here today and we ask 
that each of you limit your oral statements to 5 minutes in order 
to ensure time for questions and discussion. Your written testi- 
mony in full will be included in the hearing record. So we would 
like to start with you, Mr. Attorney General Doyle. 




Mr. Doyle. Well, thank you, Senator Kohl. I appreciate the op- 
portunity to be with you today, and I want to thank you for bring- 
ing this hearing to Wisconsin. Your presence is helping us to focus 
on this very important issue, and I applaud your efforts to try to 
curb handgun violence on the Federal level. 

All of us have a basic right to feel safe in our homes and on the 
streets of our cities and towns. Unfortunately, many people do not 
have that sense of security. The growth of handgun violence 
throughout our state has led to deaths, injury, and fear. 

Our schools have been shaken by countless examples of handgun 
violence. Arguments that used to be settled with fistfights are now 
being fought out on our playgrounds with handguns. 

There is little question that handguns are the most dangerous 
firearms in Wisconsin. Statistics show that nearly 70 percent of all 
firearm deaths in our state are from handguns, and last year 100 
murders were committed with handguns in Wisconsin. We took a 
big step forward in our state 2 years ago when we passed a law 
requiring all who buy handguns from registered firearm dealers to 
clear a criminal background check. We have already stopped 495 
handgun sales to convicted felons during the first 21 months our 
law has been on the books. Many said that people with criminal 
records would never attempt to buy a gun in a gun store. They 
have already been wrong 495 times. 

The biggest challenge we face in Milwaukee and throughout our 
state is the danger posed by small, short-barreled handguns, those 
with a barrel length of less than 4 inches. Short-barreled handguns 
are three times more likely to be used in a crime than any other 
type of handgun. They are cheap, plentiful and easy to conceal. Un- 
fortunately, they are also deadly. These guns have been removed 
from schools in the city of Milwaukee on a regular basis. Over half 
the handguns recovered by the Milwaukee police have a barrel 
length of 4 inches or less, and an epidemiological study by re- 
searchers from the University of Wisconsin and the Medical College 
of Wisconsin has found that short-barreled handguns are over- 
whelmingly the weapon of choice in Milwaukee homicides. So much 
time and so much energy has been spent on arguments between 
those who believe anyone should be allowed to have any kind of 
gun at any time, and those who want to ban handguns entirely. 

I believe it is time that we focus properly this debate on the kind 
of weapon that is killing our children. This is a Raven. [Mr. Doyle 
exhibits a handgun.] This has been disabled, by the way, so don't 
worry. [General laughter.] This is a weapon that is causing so 
much violence. Next month, I want the Children and Violence de- 
bate in the Wisconsin legislature to focus on this kind of weapon. 
The Raven and several guns like it are made for as little as $13 


and have a wholesale price of about $30 and can be sold for retail 
prices of under $60. With babysitting money children can buy these 
dangerous weapons. Such guns are not used by sportsmen. They 
are not desired by collectors. They are weapons that kill and injure 
innocent people, usually children, and they need to be regulated 
more effectively. 

In 1968, following the assassinations of Martin Luther King and 
Robert Kennedy, Congress passed the Gun Control Act of 1968. 
That law tried to reduce the availability of the Saturday Night Spe- 
cials which were largely coming into the United States from foreign 
manufacturers. Unfortunately, when Congress tried to reduce the 
supply of cheap, small-barreled handguns from foreign countries, it 
helped to create a new industry in America. 

One family in California has built a cheap gun empire by making 
Ravens, Jennings and Davis short-barreled handguns. Some 
400,000 of these guns are being made every year by these compa- 
nies. Their guns have been identified by Federal authorities as 
three of the top six handguns used in crimes in the United States. 
The Raven and Raven-like guns do not have to comply with any 
Federal safety requirements. Many reasonable persons would say 
this type of gun should be banned entirely. Others would say we 
should not allow them to be manufactured. Yet, I have a more mod- 
est proposal. I want to regulate these weapons more effectively. My 
proposal requires a state license for gun dealers who wish to sell 
short-barreled handguns. All sales of short-barreled handguns, in- 
cluding private sales, would be processed through licensed dealers. 
All who buy such handguns would submit fingerprints and be cov- 
ered by Wisconsin's waiting period and mandatory criminal back- 
ground checks. 

Earlier in this century, we recognized the inherent dangers posed 
by sawed-off shotguns. We have also acknowledged that access to 
machine guns must be restricted. My proposal follows the same 
logic. If law abiding citizens want short-barreled handguns, they 
can have them. However, we must make sure that people who buy 
them are legally qualified to possess them. 

I am delighted that you have invited Sarah Brady to return to 
Wisconsin. Her efforts here 2 years ago helped us pass our criminal 
background check requirement. She has my sincere gratitude for 
her courageous leadership in controlling handguns. I sincerely hope 
that very soon the Brady Bill becomes Federal law. It has taken 
far too long to get such a reasonable measure through Congress. 
The Brady Bill as currently written would not extend Wisconsin's 
48 hour waiting period, however, I strongly believe that our state 
should expand its waiting period to be consistent with the Federal 
standard when the Brady Bill is enacted. 

The gun lobby always tries to frame the debate as an all or noth- 
ing proposition. They say that the Brady Bill won't eliminate hand- 
gun violence and they say that my bill won't prevent criminals 
from breaking the law. Yet, it is time we bring some common sense 
back into the handgun debate. No single law will eliminate the 
dangers that handguns pose for our children, and I firmly believe 
that we need strong penalties for those who commit crimes with 
guns. But these proposals are reasonable regulations that enjoy 
widespread public support. They can and will make a difference. 


Again, thank you, Senator Kohl, for addressing this issue in Wis- 
consin. It is one of great concern in this state as it is across the 
country. We appreciate your efforts on a national level in bringing 
about the Brady Bill which everybody seems to think looks like it 
is soon to be enacted, and we particularly appreciate in Wisconsin 
your willingness to address this issue as it relates to the children 
in our state. Thank you. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you very much, Mr. Doyle. 

Mr. Jude. 


Mr. JuDE. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the invitation to testify on 
this what I would consider an important subject, kids and guns. I 
am Willie Jude, Jr. I have worked with the MPS system for 22 
years, 11 years as an administrative security at various high school 
schools, and am currently in my third year as principal at James 
Madison High School, with a population of approximately 1,300 

I speak to you as a parent and as an administrator. Realizing 
that I share the concerns that Senator Kohl has, and the concerns 
of many parents, educators and administrators across this country 
of ours regarding the growing problem with kids and guns. For a 
decade, I have observed an alarming and growing trend among the 
juvenile criminally inclined. They have gotten bolder, colder, more 
aggressive, and some appear to have very little respect for life in 

As a result of this negative attitude and behavior, many edu- 
cators, administrators are finding it very difficult to educate their 
American kids. During the 1992-93 school year, we expelled 98 
students from the Milwaukee Public School System. After review- 
ing the data from 1992-93, it revealed that 50 percent of those ex- 
pulsions was gun-related, and of that number, students between 
the age of 13 and 16 accounted for more than 70 percent of those 
weapons. As an administrator in charge of security for 11 years, I 
could recite many, many incidents involving kids and guns and the 
tragic cause as a result of their action. 

But for the next few minutes I want to focus in on why I feel 
and we feel that, as educators, that so many of our kids are carry- 
ing weapons, are bringing weapons to school. And the chief cause 
is, and this is number one, the chief cause is fear. The word fear. 
Students are intimidated, threatened, or even, many times, they 
are frightened by gang activities on and off the school premises. 
They feel they have to protect themselves because either the law 
is too slow, inaccurate, and many times they feel the judiciary sys- 
tem is far too soft on the criminal. 

The other area we have to deal with is what I would call the ad- 
judicated student, the fox in the hen house scenario. This is the 
student that has been convicted of a serious crime, sent to a state 
correctional institution, after they have served the time, they're re- 
leased on Friday and, many times, they show up at school on Mon- 
day. And by law we have to accept them, unless we have an alter- 
native program for them. 

Case in point. In September, 1992, I approached a student using 
vulgar and profane language directed at a teacher. After removing 


the student from the scene, I asked the student if he attended 
Madison the previous year. The student stated: "I was locked up 
for shooting a man, and if you start messing with me, I'll go back 
again." He lasted for only 2 weeks. He was back in jail. 

In October 1992, a young man that was released early from the 
correctional institution was involved in a shooting on 51st and 
Fond du Lac. After being in the school for only 1 month, he had 
recruited eight students that followed him that was also involved 
in the situation that, up until that time, did not have a juvenile 

In February 1993, an adjudicated student wrote a letter to his 
friends in the correctional institution he had just been released 
from. In his letters to his comrades, he informed them that he had 
a golden opportunity to organize the gangs at Madison High School 
and control the school. We was able to prevent him from organizing 
the building, but less than 3 weeks later he was killed in the com- 
munity near which he lived. 

So we are wondering why are kids bringing more and more 
weapons to school. And if we analyzed the data, we'll find fear is 
a major cause. I believe that the legislation that Senator Kohl is 
introducing, the Youth Handgun Safety Act of 1993, is a positive 
step forward. I also recommend, however, that adjudicated stu- 
dents convicted of a serious crime be prohibited from attending a 
regular school setting. They should be provided with alternatives, 
whether it be more time in the correctional institution with greater 
restriction and greater controls, alternative schools, designed, 
structured programs to meet the needs of that adjudicated student. 
Boot camp, if necessary. Also more transitional schools to deal just 
with that criminal mind rather than contaminating the regular 
kids at the regular high schools. 

In summary, I strongly support the Federal legislation barring 
youth from possessing handguns without adult supervision. I also 
strongly recommended an adjudicated kid, in other words, those 
kids convicted of a serious crime, be prohibited from attending a 
regular school setting. 

As Senator Kohl probably knows very well, that one bad apple 
can spoil a bushel of good ones. And why do we continue to con- 
taminate our kids with these type of students that are adjudicated? 
This is the reason why I support the bill of Senator Kohl, and I 
also support the Brady Bill because I believe it's a step also in the 
right direction. 

Let me conclude, Mr. Chairman, by again, thanking you for fo- 
cusing on the subject kids and guns. The schools across America 
are not islands but an integral part of the great society, and what- 
ever happens to the educational institution in this country will af- 
fect all America. Once again, thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you very much, Mr. Jude. 

Dr. Hennes. 


Dr. Hennes. Mr. Chairman, I'm a pediatric emergency medicine 
physician who works at Children's Hospital Emergency Depart- 
ment and Trauma Center. Our hospital is the only level one trau- 
ma center in Wisconsin, so all children with life-threatening ill- 


nesses or injuries would be transferred to our hospital for medical 

I regret to say that as an emergency medicine physician, my col- 
leagues and I are seeing too many kids who are injured with gun- 
shot wounds. We see the tragic outcome of those injuries and the 
devastating effect it has on their families also. 

Over the past 3 years we have noticed a significant increase in 
the number of gunshot wound injuries. However, during the same 
period of time, there has been no increase in motor vehicle-related 
accidents or other potential hazards that we have seen. 

In 1989, we treated 44 children with gunshot wounds in our 
emergency department, of whom 34 required hospitalization and 2 
died. In 1992, we've seen 200 children. Fifty-five of them required 
hospitalization. And this is an increase of 350 percent that we have 
seen over 3 years. This is really an epidemic and a disgrace. 

If I may, I'll just leave you with two cases that we have seen re- 
cently. In August 1993, we treated a 13-year-old boy with a gun- 
shot wound to the chest. He was an innocent bystander in a drive- 
by shooting. Fortunately, he survived. In our opinion, is this child 
a criminal? Is he a gang member? The answer, fortunately, is no 
to both of them. He was just a 13-year-old boy, standing on the 
front porch of his house when he was shot. 

The second child was a 12-year-old boy who was found in an 
alley with a gunshot wound to the head. He was brain dead when 
he arrived to our emergency department. We were able to keep him 
alive for 3 hours until the police were able to identify him and find 
his parents. From what we were told by the police officers later on, 
that the child was at the friend's house playing with other kids. 
The friend's father had a loaded gun under the couch cushion in 
the living room. The boy was playing with the gun and it suddenly 
discharged, striking the victim in the head. Scared from what hap- 
pened, the boys dragged his body into the alley and left him there 
and ran away. 

Mr. Chairman, this boy should have never died. A senseless 
death was preventable, and the pain felt by his family and friends, 
especially the father who owned the gun, was agonizing. For a par- 
ent to watch their child die is a painful experience. 

Fortunately, not all gunshot wounds are fatal. The majority of 
them, indeed, are not fatal, and for that we should be grateful. 
However, we cannot ignore the possibility of a permanent disabil- 
ity, a psychological or emotional trauma to the child and members 
of his family later on. 

Our children are our future and the future of our country. Most 
of them are not gang members or criminals. All too often they are 
only the innocent bystander in a drive-by shooting or a loaded gun 
which is left within an easy reach by an irresponsible adult. 

We should be able to protect our children. We should be able to 
provide them with a safe environment to live in and grow. Unfortu- 
nately, our children in our modern society promote violent behav- 
ior, and one look at TV programs or new movies can underscore 

As a physician, I believe that firearm injuries in children are an 
epidemic. If this epidemic was a disease like AIDS, we would have 
seen the medical community, government agencies, the public and 


the media demanding an end to it. Guns are far worse than a dis- 
ease. As physicians and scientists, we can come up with new anti- 
biotics, we can come up with new vaccines, or new treatment for 
cancer, but we cannot do anything with the child with a gunshot 
wound to his head or a bullet in his brain. 

I strongly support Senator Kohl's proposed bill to prohibit the 
possession of handguns or ammunition by a juvenile, and I think 
that this is an important step in the right direction to combat this 
epidemic. We have to change our way of thinking about guns and 
realize that guns are a real threat toward our children and the 
well-being of our society. 

I thank you very much for the opportunity to speak before you 
and, once again, I strongly support your bill and I hope, for the 
records, that Dr. Steve Hargutt's statement will be also included in 
the record of this meeting. 

Senator KoHL. It will be so done, and we thank you, Dr. Hennes, 
for your testimony. 

Reverend Saffold. 


Reverend Saffold. My name is Gerald Saffold, and I'm pastor 
of the Foundation Prayer Church, as well as a director of a youth 
organization called Unity in the Community. 

For the past 10 years I've watched a situation grow worse and 
worse. Even as Mr. Jude spoke, I agreed with him. About a decade, 
about 10 years ago, 1983, I had talked to pastors and said, if we 
don't do something about the young people in our city that were 
starting to gang up, and at that time they would just kind of fight 
one another with fists or other kinds of weapons, gang violence and 
those types of things, I talked to the pastors and said, if we don't 
do something we're going to have a situation like the Wild, Wild 
West. I remember specifically saying that. And now, right now, it 
has become just that bad. I've heard about numerous studies or re- 
ports supporting the fact that violent crimes among youths has es- 
calated, not only in Milwaukee but all over the country. However, 
I don't need a report or a study to convince me that we have a 
grave problem. I've attended too many funerals of teenagers who 
have been cut down by an assassin's bullet who was maybe some- 
where around their age. I've talked to too many funeral directors 
who have articulated the increasing numbers of youth passing 
through their doors who were victims of gruesome crimes with 
guns. At one funeral of a young man killed by gunshot wounds, 
during the services at that funeral home, the minister, the grieving 
family and friends had to jump to the floor, fearing for their lives 
as young people entered that funeral home with weapons, looking 
for another young man, chased him out and then shot him and 
killed him, after being at the funeral. I've seen too many parents 
crying over sons and daughters who were cut down in the prime 
of their life. Contrary to some other ministers and some other peo- 
ple who think that and believe that when a person dies it's just 
their time to go, I don't believe that. I believe that too many young 
people at the age of 16, 17, or at other ages, are in the wrong 
places at the wrong time with the wrong people doing the wrong 
things. I speak to more than 30,000 young people over the course 


of a year in motivational presentations at public schools and other 
places, and I stress to them that many of the things that they're 
involved in, many of them are suffering because of lifestyle deci- 
sions. I know that good things can happen — or bad things can hap- 
pen to good people, but too many of our young people are doing the 
wrong things and the/re having the wrong ideals placed in their 

One of the young people from my own congregation was shot in 
the face by another youth after a church service. As a matter of 
fact, I had him pray as we were leaving, and we prayed for protec- 
tion against the forces of darkness that prevail in the community 
as they go home. After that service this young person and another 
mother and another youth were going to the local check cashing 
place, as a matter of fact, on Capitol Drive and 42d Street, which 
should be safe, to pick up some money that was wired to the moth- 
er. Only the mother went inside the store while the two young men 
about 15 years old remained in the car. Upon her returning from 
the store to the car she was followed by a youth, and at that time 
they did not know that that young man had a gun at her back. She 
didn't even know it. He was asking her about how much money did 
she have. She only had about $50 that was wired. 

The young man in the car noticed the assailant, his weird behav- 
ior, and got out of the car to ask what the problem was. The assail- 
ant then removed the gun from the mother's back, shot the 15- 
year-old and ran away. The 15-year-old was immediately taken to 
the hospital. After examination it was discovered that the bullet 
somehow entered his jaw and went into his face somewhere and 
exited right under his temple close to his ear, and we don't know 
exactly how it happened, it did not touch any internal organ, but 
we know that it was a miracle. Our God is an awesome God. 

We do not allow young people to drive cars because, even though 
they may have the physical physique, they may have the skill, 
driving is a system of judgments and maturity, and if they can't 
exercise judgment and maturity, they don't need to be in a car. 

It is obvious to me that we have some problems with young peo- 
ple and guns. If we're going to do anything about it, we have to 
help those young people make decisions, and the proper decisions, 
because they have a problem with conflict resolution. 

Let me just say this as I'm closing, because I know that some of 
you think that especially ministers can talk a long time. 


Some of our young people told me that I should go see a movie 
called Menace II Society. And on Friday evening, I decided to take 
a trip over to the theater to watch the movie. First of all I was as- 
saulted in my seat by the profanity used in this movie. Gross pro- 
fanity. I mean all of us good old people shouldn't listen to that kind 
of language. Especially young people. And then the other thing that 
really knocked me out was the gross disregard for the life of other 
people. Here were young people with guns shooting people. And I 
began to watch the young people in the theater. These young peo- 
ple, even though this had a great message as far as young people 
dying because the young person who was the star of the show was 
killed and it really touched you, but I think the young people may 
have missed that because they were watching glamorous activity 


with guns, and I saw these young people rejoicing when a person 
was being shot by someone in that movie. 

When a youth shoots another youth, two families are affected. 
Both families are victims. One young person may go to the hospital 
or is maimed for life or, at worst, he is killed. I have to deal with 
that family. The mother who sits there, and she's crying, laying 
upon the casket saying, my boy, my son, who never should have 
died, and sometimes I wonder. Mom, did you take the time to train 
that kid, to shape his ideas and to help him make the right deci- 
sions. There are no winners. 

Another young person is in jail and his family is grieving. I'm 
telling you, until young people develop the proper methods for 
problem solving and conflict resolution, decisions have to be made 
for them. Until parents can make those decisions and help to pre- 
serve the lives of their children and teach them, decisions will have 
to be made. 

So people who provide handguns must suffer the consequences 
for providing those handguns to young people, and I want you to 
know I have young people right now that I can talk to who could 
find places to get guns very easily. Very easily. I don't know if the 
laws will stop that, but we've got to deal with that fact. And it's 
going to take the legislation, families, the administrators in the 
schools, all of us working together to do it. And if we're not willing 
to do that, then the law itself won't do it. It's going to take people. 

And that's what my job is. I want to work with those young peo- 
ple to change their minds. Thank very much, sir. 

Senator KoHL. Thank you. [Applause.] 

Thank you. Reverend Saffold. An excellent testimony. I only 
suggest next time that you should speak with a little more convic- 
tion and fervor. 

Reverend Saffold. Yes, sir. 

Senator KoHL. Mr. Attorney General, I would like you to com- 
ment on the suggestion made by many, or by some, that the prob- 
lem of kids and guns is a problem that is centralized primarily in 
our inner cities and we need to legislate and work in that area and 
not have to worry, don't have to worry so much about our sur- 
rounding areas. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, I think that's a very dangerous line of thought. 
It is clear in Wisconsin that the problem of kids and guns extends 
beyond the city of Milwaukee. The city of Madison, where I grew 
up and have lived most of my life, has just, in recent years, experi- 
enced guns being removed from the schools with some regularity 
and shooting of young people and the kinds of things that it never 
had before. Cities across the state, Eau Claire, La Crosse, Wausau, 
to name three in particular, are very concerned about gang activity 
with young people, including access to weapons, and what is going 
on. And I really cite, I think, the cocaine example, I think, is the 
best refutation for that argument. Ten or twelve years ago people 
thought cocaine was an inner city problem, and they woke up 10 
years later to find that it was in their communities all across the 

One of the biggest problems, challenges I face as Attorney Gen- 
eral is to represent the State of Wisconsin and to make sure and 
to try to impress upon people outside the cities of Madison and Mil- 


waukee and in Beloit and some others, that this is a problem for 
the whole state, that we're in it together. What happens in Milwau- 
kee is going to affect what happens in Wausau and Superior and 
La Crosse, just as what happens in those communities will affect 
Milwaukee. So we really have to address this as a state issue and, 
in your perspective, address it as a national issue, that things may 
start here in Milwaukee, in bigger cities, but they certainly end up 
affecting the rest of the state. That's happened in many other 
areas, it's beginning to happen and is happening with gun violence, 
it's happening with gang violence, and it's something we have to 
address on a much larger scale than just saying, well, this is one 
group of people and one area and one neighborhood and let's sort 
of write it off, which is a heartless way to look at the problem to 
begin with and also, I think, a very dangerous way to look at it for 
people who live in other communities around the state. 

Senator KOHL. All right. I would like to discuss with all four of 
you Wisconsin's law, which is not too dissimilar from the law that 
I am proposing. Why hasn't Wisconsin's law worked? What do we 
need to do to see to it that Wisconsin's law can be made to work? 
Because we do have a law in this state, is that right, Mr. Attorney 
General, that is, for the most part, somewhat similar to the law 
that I'm proposing on a national level? 

Mr. Doyle. That's right. We have a law that is almost identical 
to your proposal on a national level. 

Senator KOHL. So let's talk about it, gentlemen. Reverend 
Saffold, would you like to comment about it first, and then we'll go 
right down, Mr. Jude and Dr. Hennes. Because that is an argu- 
ment that is made by people who are not supportive of this law. 
They say we have plenty of laws on the books, and in fact, in Wis- 
consin you have a law on the books almost exactly like the one that 
we are talking about, and here today we're talking about statistics 
in Wisconsin that are totally unacceptable, and so they will say you 
have a law. The problem is not the law. So we need to talk about 

Reverend Saffold. I really believe that it's going to take us 
working together, each one of us in the areas of our expertise. I've 
been touched by every testimony that I've heard, and I really be- 
lieve that men such as Dr. Hennes and Mr. Doyle and even Mr. 
Jude need to educate our young people as to what is really happen- 
ing. I believe — understand that I'm coming from the area where I 
work. Young people need to know what happens when they make 
the wrong decisions, and so I believe the educational aspect as to 
how lives are affected. Because there's this unrealistic thought 
that, well, it's just a movie. After it's over they're going to get up. 
But these young people don't get up. I don't think they realize what 
happens when you're shot. I've listened to the testimony of this 
lady, how much fear and terror was in her heart. And you know, 
it's really amazing that some of these very young people who use 
weapons, when a weapon is pointing at them, it's a totally different 
story. They're not as cool, they're not as bad. It has to be, I believe, 
an educational process, and as we work together, that can happen. 

Senator KOHL. So you're saying it's not that we don't need the 
law, we need the law, but we have to do much more than have the 


Reverend Saffold. Most definitely we need the law. OK. I mean 
if there's no law, then we have lawlessness. So we certainly need 
the law, and I believe that you're headed generally in the right di- 
rection. So if we're educated to the law and if we're able to work, 
then, to change the hearts and the minds of people, then I believe 
that the law will be effective. The law itself won't be effective, but 
if we work and know the law and then follow behind it, I believe 
that we can change. 

Senator KoHL. Mr. Jude. 

Mr. Jude. I agree. The law is definitely necessary. Even the law, 
the proposal you have here is also, as I stated earlier, a step in the 
right direction. But I also agree that laws themselves will not an- 
swer or not solve the problem. 

One of the concerns I have with all of the laws is the perceived 
lack of enforcement and the perceived softness on the part of courts 
when we start dealing with juveniles. Even kids perceive it. A 
young man told me the other day — he was talking about a situation 
in the community. He indicated, well, I can't take a chance, be- 
cause if I do, the law may catch him, but I'm dead, and all that's 
going to happen to him, he may go to Wales for a little while, and 
he's back out in 2 years or 3 years. And so the kids say, I've got 
to protect myself because the law isn't fast enough, because when 
I'm dead the law may get him, they may arrest him, they may even 
send him to jail, but he's there 2 or 3 years and then back out on 
the street. So self preservation comes in when you get into the en- 
forcement of juvenile code. But I love this particular law because 
it will be consistent across the country, is that a Federal law, that 
a kid cannot go across the borders of Wisconsin into Illinois and 
buy a cheap gun and come back. That's why I like the law because 
it's consistent across this entire country that we are all so con- 
cerned about our juveniles and that they shouldn't have access to 
guns until the appropriate time, age and so on. And so I believe 
the law is necessary but I feel there is a lot of work to be done in 
the department of education, community, with all agencies involved 
with this problem, because as I stated before, the schools are not 
islands, we are all inter-connected. We have to all get on board if 
we want to really solve this problem. 

Senator Kohl. Dr. Hennes. 

Dr. Hennes. Senator, I finished medical school about 20 years 
ago, and I don't think I will ever get used to the idea of having 
someone die on me. And this is how I look at it. The issue is hand- 
guns and what handguns are doing to people and to our society. 
Even if the law in Wisconsin is presently available, I don't think 
that this is enough and I don't think that Federal law alone is 
enough. I think that we have to put our hands together as a society 
and try and come up with solutions for the problem. 

What do we need? We need money, we need resources, we need 
education, and we need to sit together and say, are handguns real- 
ly useful. Do they really protect people? I don't think that there are 
any statistics that will tell me that handguns for protection at 
home actually does an3d:hing as compared to handguns with crimi- 
nals on the street. All that comes at the hand of a child who just 
find a gun at home. And this is what amounts to our losses as hap- 
pening, it's just those freak accidents that happen with kids that 


are, as everybody else on the panel said, in the wrong place at the 
wrong time. 

We can't look at it only from the perspective of kids die and kids 
get hurt and families get to suffer and people go to prison. We have 
to look at it also from the financial point of view. We are all com- 
plaining about the cost of the health care system in this country, 
and for every gunshot wound, nonfatal, the average is $6,000 in 
health care costs. Can we afford it, with the numbers going up? I 
don't think so. 

Senator Kohl. Thank you. Mr. Attorney General, we have a law 
here in the State of Wisconsin. What are the problems? 

Mr. Doyle. Well, a significant problem is, I think, an obvious 
one. A crime is committed, a juvenile has one of these little guns, 
so you know a 16-year-old has the gun which is in violation of the 
law. How in the world do you ever determine who it is who sold 
that person the gun? How do you ever enforce that? You know the 
person has the gun, it's illegal for the young person to have the 
gun, but there's no way to determine who sold the gun. 

My proposal in Wisconsin that deals with these little guns would 
require everybody who purchases them to give us a fingerprint and 
we would know who purchased this gun and when they purchased 
it and we could at least begin to put together the chain of custody 
of that gun to see who may have indeed purchased it and then sold 
it to a juvenile. 

This, your bill, is obviously not going to end handgun violence 
against juveniles in the United States. If there was one bill that 
could do that, you, Senator, I'm sure, would have thought it up, or 
one of your colleagues or somebody smart enough in America would 
have figured out what the one law is that would do it. I agree with 
all the panelists that this is an enormous effort that has to be dealt 
with in a number of ways. To me, listening to the testimony here 
today, Dr. Hennes's figure is the one I think that we have to really 
focus on, that in the last 3 years there's been a 350 percent in- 
crease in the number of admissions in this hospital with gunshot 
wounds. They're being caused, for the most part, with these little 
guns, and the reason is because there are so many more of these 
little guns out on the street than there were 3 years ago. This is 
not the same debate that we were having 10 years ago or 15 years 
ago. This is now a debate in which these guns are flooding into our 
cities and kids carrying them around in their pockets, and little 
fights that used to be fistfights now turning into one pulling out 
one of these guns and shooting it. 

I agree completely with the Reverend, who indicated that there 
has to be, in addition to law enforcement, strong laws and severely 
punishing people who do violate these laws, there has to be edu- 
cation, there have to be programs — a number of communities are 
starting them — dealing with gang resistance education, teaching 
young people to make the right decisions. So it is a community ef- 
fort that reaches beyond law enforcement to our churches and com- 
munity groups and schools and throughout. But we at the Federal 
level and at the state level have to look at some way to stem the 
flow of these things into our communities. 

If you dump thousands of these into the streets of Milwaukee, I 
guarantee you you're going to have many, many more young people 


shot by these guns, and your bill, making this a national crime, 
would help that, although I think we all have to recognize, I'm sure 
you do. Senator, that this is not the one answer that is going to 
solve the entire problem. We have to be dealing with it on many 
different levels. 

Senator KoHL. As you know, Mr. Attorney General, about a 
month ago in the Senate of the United States there was a vote to 
try and increase a gun dealer's license. Right now we have 250,000 
gun dealers in this country, and many of them operate out of their 
apartments or even out of their automobiles. It costs $10 to become 
a licensed gun dealer. And we had a vote to increase the annual 
costs of being a gun dealer from $10 to $300 in the U.S. Senate. 
It lost 70 to 30. What should we do about licensing gun dealers? 

Mr. Doyle. Well, in Wisconsin we have no further licensing. 
We're one of about half of the states in the country that has no 
state licensing, so that $10 gun dealer fee on the Federal level 
makes you a gun dealer in Wisconsin. In Wisconsin we have about 
5,700 gun dealers. Now, these are not people who you think of as 
having a gun shop. These are people that have, for many legitimate 
reasons, let me say, many of them get the gun dealer license be- 
cause they can purchase wholesale and they're gun collectors and 
so on. 

They're perfectly legitimate, law abiding citizens. But there are 
others who, for $10, become a Federal licensed gun dealer and they 
can then order these guns wholesale, in bulk, have them shipped 
into the state and can sell them out on the street. These are guns 
that, as I say, can be manufactured for as little as $13, they can 
be wholesaled at $30, and they can be out on the street for 50 or 
$60, and all you need to be a gun dealer in Wisconsin is $10 and 
to fill out the Federal license and you now are a licensed gun deal- 
er, able to import these guns into the State of Wisconsin. So clearly 
we need to tighten the manner of trafficking in guns in this coun- 

Interestingly enough, as I indicated in my testimony, in 1968 
these type of guns were manufactured outside of the United States 
and the Gun Control Act of 1968 largely shut down the foreign im- 
portation, but what it did was create a large national industry that 
is now making hundreds of millions of dollars putting these guns 
out on the streets of our cities and towns. 

Senator KOHL. Incredible. When you think about it, you virtually 
could become a licensed gun dealer for nothing, $10, for nothing, 
and then you could, right away, order these guns and take them 
into your car, take them into your home, do whatever you want, 
just go out and sell them. I mean I must say I think it's close to 
being uncivilized. 

Mr. Doyle. Well, and part of our proposal on the state proposal 
is that anyone who would sell one of these guns would have to have 
a state gun license, and states similar to Wisconsin that have done 
that, Georgia and Indiana had a similar number of licensees, and 
they went to a state licensing system and reduced by about a third 
to a fourth the number of state licensed dealers in the state. 

Senator KOHL. One last question, gentlemen. How much of an 
impact do you think what kids see on TV has on this whole prob- 
lem in our society? 


Dr. Hennes. a lot. It's been proven in studies over and over 
again, and it does have an impact. Violence on television is related 
to violence on the street and violence with kids in general. 

Mr. JUDE. Yes. The increase of violence being observed on tele- 
vision or in other places desensitizes them to the area where they 
have very little feeling or regard for life in general. Oftentimes they 
look at it as a means of solving a problem quickly and perma- 
nently. So they tend to imitate, especially young kids, 10, 11, 12, 
and 13 year olds, and because of that, they feel the solution, you 
don't want something, get rid of it, and get rid of something in 
their minds is to blow him away, if they have the means. And be- 
cause other kids realize this is the thinking of their peers, when 
they get in trouble, they then try to fmd some means of protecting 
themselves because they know the minds of their peers and they 
know it's not safe to confront them one on one, or in high school, 
when I was in high school, had a difficult problem, we would face 
each other, had a fistfight, got a bloody nose and went on home. 
But they know that this is not the way the game is played these 
days. So you have innocent kids looking for weapons, not because 
they are criminals but because they are purely frightened out of 
their minds. Unless I have something to protect myself, I'm a 
goner, using their terminology. 

Reverend Saffold. I have a 6-year-old son, and for almost 4 or 
5 years I fought the idea of him having a toy gun. I refused to buy 
him a gun at all. I refused to buy a gun for him. I've kind of mel- 
lowed over my senior years now, and I've allowed him to have a 
squirt gun. I've asked the young people in my church, and I have 
70 percent young people, and I asked how many people used to 
carry a weapon when they were walking the streets. And I have 
ex-gang members, I have some that have been involved in all kinds 
of scraps, and those young people raised their hands, and I looked 
at young people who, they're helping now to make a change in the 
community, but I look at some of them now and I said, I would 
have been afraid for you to have a squirt gun. I mean knowing 
their mentality, knowing you right now. So it's something that 
looks like it's glamorous. 

My little boy, even as good as that young man is, at 6 years old, 
he wants a gun, and I refuse to allow him to have a gun because 
of the implications, and I don't want him to get used to that men- 
tality, that idea. And then so many — it looks like a toy gun to me, 
this little gun that the brother has, it looks like a toy gun. Who's 
to know if it really is. And what this young man has said, Mr. 
Doyle has said, is frightening. It is frightening. 

So I'm very much concerned about what television has to say 
about guns and the movies are saying. It's a very important issue, 
and I think that it has to start somewhere. Please know that I feel 
very strongly about that. It has to start somewhere. And if we work 
together, I think we can do it. 

Senator KOHL. Thank you. Mr. Attorney General, violence and 


Mr. Doyle. I agree with what's been said, and I think it's some- 
thing we need to continue to, as is building now, continue to have 
the movement grow to try to confront those who make decisions on 


programming and hope that they exercise responsibiUty in what 
they show us. 

I recently heard Janet Reno give a talk on this and made the 
point, she made the point that really we've made here, that too 
much of what's depicted shows people that the way to solve the 
problem is to fight your way out of it or shoot your way out of it 
instead of learning to work together to try to deal with the prob- 

Senator Kohl. Well, thank you very much, gentlemen. You've 
been very, very helpful and advanced the cause a great deal by 
your presence and your testimony. Attorney General, thank you. 

Mr. Doyle. Thank you. 

Senator Kohl. Dr. Hennes, thank you. 

Dr. Hennes. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Mr. Jude, thank you. 

Mr. Jude. Thank you. 

Senator KOHL. Reverend Saffold, thank you. 

Reverend Saffold. Senator Kohl? 

Senator Kohl. Yes, sir. 

Reverend Saffold. As a summary statement, can I just say this? 
I think that the most frightening thing was when the young people 
who told me to go see this movie, they told me this is real life. 

Senator KoHL. Real life. 

Reverend Saffold. Real life. This is what they told me. This is 
real life. That's frightening. 

Senator Kohl. All right. Well, our next witness today is Jim 
Fendry, who's the director of the Wisconsin Pro Gun Movement 
and the legislative director of the Wisconsin Rifle and Pistol Asso- 

Mr. Fendry, I would like to thank you for appearing today. I 
want to note that we have invited your organization here not to 
play the role, of course, of bad guys but, obviously, to help us de- 
velop a consensus. We would like you to begin and, if you would, 
try to limit your testimony to 5 minutes so we will have a chance 
to have a little exchange. 


Mr. Fendry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do 
thank you for the opportunity to testify on S-1087 and the issue 
of children and firearms. For the rest of the group my name is 
James E. Fendry. I'm a life-long resident of Milwaukee County, 
Wisconsin. And like yourself. Senator, I, too, served this great 
country into which I was born. First as a United States Marine, 
then a major portion of my adult life as a police officer and police 
firearms instructor, and today as a director of the Wisconsin Pro 
Gun Movement. 

Senator Kohl, you and I grew up together. We grew up at a time 
when the mere discovery of a switch blade or a zip gun at Wash- 
ington High School would have resulted in headlines in the Mil- 
waukee Journal. It is needless to say what has taken place since 
those early fifties. Perhaps this makes visits with our old teachers 


even more enjoyable as we talk about happier times. Times when 
we could walk on Sherman Boulevard without fear. 

Reflecting back, it is almost unbelievable that today so many stu- 
dents carry guns. Some because they are predators, and others, 
like creatures of the forest, because they fear they will lose their 
lives to those predators. Although in sadness I question the ability 
of any law being able to have even a minor effect on this tragic 
state of affairs, I do applaud your concern and your caring. But this 
is your nature. You left the business community in Wisconsin with 
a reputation for genius, but not only genius, but being a person 
that was very kindhearted and very generous. 

The intent of S-1087, to keep guns and ammunition out of the 
hand of children, is a concept with which I and the Wisconsin gun 
owners that I represent can and do agree. And to that end I would 
be pleased to work with this subcommittee to effect the final pas- 
sage of this bill. However, before I could support the legislation 
with the vigor that it deserves, I must express some valid concerns. 

While the proposal exempts children engaged in adult supervised 
target practice and instruction, the question is, is this enough. 
Many of the 50 states allow people under the age of 18 to hunt 
with a handgun when accompanied by an adult, and one doesn't 
have to go to Wyoming to fmd people under the age of 18 carrying 
handguns. If we take a look, we'll fmd that some of the farm boys 
in the hills of Baraboo carry handguns while working their family 
farm because of the abundance and the dangers of rattlesnakes 
that reside in that area. The question, then, is would it be prudent 
or even practical to make that type of an activity a Federal viola- 
tion? Of course, it's the cities where all the problems lie. Even if 
S-1087 was limited to cities of a certain population, then what 
about the safety of those under 18 who live alone? How do we tell 
a young gay person, thrown out of their home by homophobic par- 
ents, that if they possess a handgun for protection from murderous 
gay bashers, that this possession would become a Federal offense? 
How do you tell a young single mother, living alone, the type of 
women who often won't have enough money to buy a handgun bet- 
ter than one that was pictured here before, that if she decides to 
possess one to protect herself and her child that she will then have 
violated Federal law? And how do we tell the female students at 
the Florida University, where so many numerous classmates have 
been raped and murdered, that if dad and mom give them a hand- 
gun to keep them from being next, the entire family, then, could 
end up in Federal court? 

Senator there are persons in this room today that have had their 
home invaded. They've been subject to attack, and not only where 
they suffered the loss of property, but they've had to suffer human 
indignities as well. Remembering the horror of such an event 
should be enough to hope that no other person ever becomes a vic- 
tim of such a crime or be unarmed if they ever again have to 
confront such a criminal. 

Now, all of this isn't to say that I feel that any child, regardless 
of age or training, should be permitted to possess a handgun, on 
the basis of their perception of the need to own. Wisconsin pro- 
hibits the possession of handguns by persons under 18, allowing 
only supervised target practice, and then only over the age of 12. 


But considering the cost of Federal prosecution, the difficulty with 
prosecuting the juvenile in the Federal system and recurrent 
delays in prosecuting serious Federal crimes, the question is, would 
this be a good business decision for our over burdened courts? 

Senate bill 1087 would prohibit the possession of handgun am- 
munition, even one round, by a person under 18. To say that pos- 
session of a .25 ACP ammunition would be prohibited but the pos- 
session of the more powerful .22 rimfire ammunition would be al- 
lowed because it can be used in a rifle as well, is somewhat lacking 
in logic. Today, unlike 25 years ago, many rifles are chambered for 
handgun cartridges, such as the .44 magnums. And throughout 
America, many people hunt deer and they hunt with .44 magnums. 
And in some cases those are rifles and in some cases those are 
handguns and then using handgun ammunition. It would not only 
be impossible, but pointless as well, to try to make a distinction. 
Children of law abiding American gun owners often start by collect- 
ing cartridges until they are old enough to buy and collect guns. 

Obviously, the intent of S-1087 is not to take a revolver away 
from a 17-year-old working a ranch in Montana. It is not to reduce 
accidents, as firearms accidents among children are and have been 
continually on a steep decline as a result of the efforts of the NRA 
and gun owners throughout the nation. The purpose of the legisla- 
tion is to disarm and to keep guns away from youthful criminals 
and killers in America's large cities. 

Senator in business, you made good decisions based on evalua- 
tions. What was to be gained and at what cost. Most of all, to the 
best of your ability, you fully understood the situation and the 
problem before taking any action. With regard to children and 
guns, S-1087 and other proposed Federal gun legislation as well, 
I only ask that you apply the same principles that made you so 
very successful in business. 

First, the problem that we are all here to talk about today is not 
a problem pervasive throughout America. It is not a problem perva- 
sive throughout America's large cities. It is a problem limited by 
some societal anomaly to just a small portion of the certain cities. 
In an article in the Milwaukee Journal, dated July 25, 1993, it 
states that 95 percent of the slayings took place in a 10 zip code 
area of the city of Milwaukee. The same pretty much holds true for 
other crimes as well. It must be strongly stated that this is not, 
and I emphasize not, an indictment of African-Americans or His- 
panics, for people of these ethnic back grounds living outside the 
10 zip codes are not in any way involved in homicides or any other 
crimes to any greater degree than persons of other racial back- 
grounds. Life in the city, outside of the hot-spot, is generally as 
safe and secure as in the suburbs and the rural countryside. And 
this important fact, there are far more guns and more children that 
have easy access to guns in the suburbs and in rural America than 
there are in the inner cities. But rarely does a problem develop. 
And when the problem develops I think that we find in most cases 
the people who have committed the crime have driven out from 
somewhere in those 10 zip codes. Without a problem, I guess it also 
has to be asked, what do we need in the way of a solution. 

To that end, several years ago I asked my most respected teach- 
er, now 83 years old, what the answer might be to this problem. 


A man of what I describe as being of unusual intelligence, told me 
that there was no answer, at least nothing that we who live outside 
the hot-spot could impact. It's not jobs, although that's part of it 
all. It's not education, although that, too, is part of it, particularly 
in educating all of the races that all people are equal. It certainly 
isn't gun control. It has more to do with morality and all that goes 
with morality. Throughout history free nations disintegrated when 
their people lost their morality. He then added, as applied to vio- 
lence and homicide in the inner cities, there is little that can be 
done. Just as the drunkard and the drug addict cannot be helped 
until they want help and want to change, the people who live in 
the hot-spot cannot be helped until they, themselves will no longer 
be willing to live and raise their children in a manner that results 
in problems that exist today. He advised that the healing must 
come from within. 

Senator if S-1087 were law today, I would be certain that my 
granddaughter's small collection of cartridges would be removed 
from her possession. 

Two, I'm certain that my old squad partner, now living in Jack- 
son Hole, Wyoming, would take away the revolver that his grand- 
son carries while mending a fence line. But anyone who believes 
that this legislation would make it harder for even one juvenile of- 
fender to obtain a handgun is being somewhat naive. 

Senator that concludes my formal statement. However, as the 
token representative of the gun lobby, so-to-speak, may I ask your 
indulgence for a few comments as well? 

Senator Kohl. Why, certainly. 

Mr. Fendry. Thank you. Senator. 

Senator Kohl. Do you want to make a few more comments? 

Mr. Fendry. If I may. 

Senator KOHL. Yes. Go right ahead. 

Mr. Fendry. Thank you so much, Senator. I've heard a great 
deal of testimony here today, some indicating that we have too 
many gun dealers and that's a problem. Well, in Wisconsin alone 
we have 6,000 gun dealers. Over 90 percent of those are not in the 
city of Milwaukee, not even in Milwaukee County. They're not 
causing any trouble. And the ones who are in Milwaukee County 
aren't dealing out of the trunks of their car. 

General Doyle testified that other states had been successful in 
state licensing gun dealers because it reduced the number of Fed- 
eral Hcenses as well. I would hope that everybody here would un- 
derstand just what the General said and what the General's intent 
is, and why we, who are part of the gun lobby, those that protect 
the civil rights of Americans who wish to own guns for law abiding 
purposes, are concerned about. All that the law did in Georgia and 
Indiana was not to reduce any violence. It continues to grow as 
much as it does in large cities throughout America. All it did was 
reduce the number of gun dealers and gave law abiding people 
fewer dealers with which whom to deal. 

And there's something that I not only ask you to listen to, Sen- 
ator, but I reach out to the hearts and the souls of everybody in 
this auditorium today. Perhaps my most favorite saying by a phi- 
losopher is that conflict among men is seldom a conflict of good ver- 
sus evil; rather, it's varying ideas of good. Everybody in this room. 


and I think in this nation, concurs with what you want, I agree 
with what you want, I agree with what Attorney General Doyle 
claims to desire, but if everybody listened very closely and looked 
for the Freudian slips, we'd see there's a little more. This isn't an 
issue of guns and gun control. This is an issue of civil rights and 
personal freedoms and whether your descendants are going to have 
the ability to own guns. General Doyle has proposed and has intro- 
duced legislation that doesn't reasonably regulate firearms. It 
strongly bans firearms acquisition on the way to further bans. And 
the speaker that will follow me will talk about the need for reason- 
able regulations. But Sarah Brady's organization. Handgun Con- 
trol, Inc., continues to donate large sums of money to communities 
and to states that attempt to ban the possession of handguns and 
of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, and that's not a reasonable 
regulation. That is a ban. And even in one of the most liberal cities 
in the tjnited States, Madison, Wisconsin, when the voters had an 
opportunity to decide whether they wanted to lose the right, the 
money that was put in by Sarah Brady wasn't enough and the 
issue failed. And this is the slippery slope that we're concerned 
about. Senator. 

Your colleagues in Washington, DC have already introduced leg- 
islation supported by Handgun Control, I believe, that would ban 
all handguns from America. Another colleague has introduced leg- 
islation that would repeal the Second Amendment, and once we 
start repealing American freedoms and we get out on that slippery 
slope, we have to ask, well, then, what will happen next? This is 
why, when we hear the words the Brady Bill is a good first step, 
are we vehemently opposed to the Brady Bill? No, no, not. Most 
gun owners don't oppose the Brady Bill, they don't see much trou- 
ble in it, and certainly very few oppose your legislation that we are 
speaking about here today. It's the slippery slope that we get out 
onto and the fact that some day Americans, either through outright 
bans or bureaucracy, may be denied the right to own firearms. And 
thank you so much. Senator. 

Senator KOHL. All right. I appreciate that and I'll just make a 
couple comments of my own. On the one hand, I hear you saying 
that you support the thrust of what we are trying to do, but I think 
most of us in this room, Mr. Fendry, would get the impression that, 
while you say that you support the thrust of what we do, you don't. 

Mr. Fendry. Let me respond to that. [Laughter and applause.] 

Senator KoHL. And I appreciate that to no end. Life is not sim- 
ple, it's complicated; and issues are not simple, they're complicated, 
which I think you are pointing out, and I don't have any disagree- 
ment with that. But you know, we have decided long ago that 
things like driving an automobile is sufficiently serious so that we 
say you have to be 16 before you can drive. That doesn't mean that 
there are not many 14 or 12 year olds that could drive an auto- 
mobile. We say look, just to be on the safe side and to preserve the 
safety of all Ainericans, we're going to set 16 as an arbitrary limit. 
Maybe it violates the Constitution — ^you might bring it up — but the 
law now is 16. We say that drinking is a serious problem in this 
country, so we don't want people under 21 to drink. Now you could 
make strong arguments that there are many 18 year olds and 16 
year olds who can drink safely, but we have decided that it is in 


the greater good of all of the people in our country and so we set 
21 year old drinking laws. We also have 18 year old voting laws. 
And you could make an argument, many people could, and logi- 
cally, that people of 16 in some cases can vote much more intel- 
ligently than people of 60 in some cases. But you know the law is 
18. Now, what we are saying here about guns is that if we really 
believe that kids shouldn't have guns, in general, recognizing that 
there are some exceptions where kids can exercise the possession 
responsibly, which is what you are saying, even necessarily, which 
is what you are saying, but that if it is in the general good for this 
country to get guns out of the hands of kids, which most people 
agree with that, and I think you do, then we need to proceed with 
things like this piece of legislation and the Brady Bill and, at the 
same time, be very careful to preserve not getting on that slippery, 
slippery slope that you are worried about, and we're all worried 
about, stay off that slope, but it doesn't mean that you don't try 
and get something on the books that will help us to contend with 
the problem we have. 

Mr. Fendry. Allow me to respond in this manner, Senator. As 
you'll recall, at the earlier part of my testimony, I indicated that 
you and our parent organization, the National Rifle Association, is 
more than happy and has publicly announced they would be more 
than happy to work with you in resolving any deficiencies and to 
help enacting passage. But people have been too often misled by 
the media and perhaps even the Senator has been misled by the 
media to believe that the gun lobby opposes all gun legislation. 
Such is not the truth. The current Wisconsin background check 
was a bill that we brought out from Washington, DC, the NRA Bill, 
and had introduced as something to be in place of the seven-day 
wait. We felt if we can find out that if Senator Kohl might wish 
to purchase a handgun and within a minute we can know that he's 
perfectly clean and eligible to own one, there's no need for him to 
have to wait 7 days. Our legislature saw that wisdom and enacted 
the instant background check and defeated a waiting period. 

In Washington, DC, when one of the senators said he was at- 
tempting to ban plastic handguns but the text of the legislation 
would have banned most of the handguns in America, NRA was 
quick to get in there and defeat that piece of legislation but help 
pass a substitute bill that actually did control plastic firearms, and 
this is current Federal law today. 

When the anti-gunners, in their failure to be able to ban hand- 
guns, decided they would now ban bullets and attempted to ban 
what they called armor piercing ammunition, but the text of the 
bill outlawed most of the sporting handgun ammunition in Amer- 
ica, the NRA was quick to defeat that but introduced legislation 
that, as you well know, is current Federal law controlling armor 
piercing ammunition. 

We're very, very concerned about the issue. We just don't think 
that the good people that wish to own guns should have to pay the 
price for the very few who misuse firearms. 

One thing is also important, per your comments. Certainly we 
don't have any right to drink in this country, we don't have any 
right to drive a car, that's a privilege; yet, with all the laws control- 
ling alcohol consumption, and even though our laws don't control 


our driving, they only control when we drive on the road, but once 
we're off the road — I should say when we're on the road, all these 
laws have done absolutely nothing to control it. And before you 
yourself. Senator, and the members of the audience, totally em- 
brace the concept of prohibition, remember this, there probably 
isn't one person in this room today that would feel that the prohibi- 
tion of alcohol could be successful; rather, you know it created orga- 
nized crime. Something we fight today. We know that the prohibi- 
tion of drugs — and this isn't meaning to say that I suggest that 
drugs be legalized — but the billions and billions of dollars that we/ 
you spend on controlling drugs has been a total failure. Today 
drugs are available in greater amounts and at lower prices than 
they ever were. Prohibiting firearms isn't going to work. I again re- 
peat with emphasis what I had said earlier. Guns are in their 
greatest abundance in more affluent communities of Whitefish Bay, 
Fox Point, Elm Grove and the rest of Wisconsin and rest of Amer- 
ica which is mainly rural. People have more money to spend on 
guns and they have more opportunity to use them, and this in- 
cludes the children, but we don't have a problem. 

The one thing, as we look at the graphs that were placed up 
here, is one tragic thing is missing. And if all we do as a people 
is to concentrate on the gun, we're missing the important issue. 
The important issue is that it may not be a gun problem — and 
don't let anybody say I said may, I use that for you— it may not 
be a gun problem, but as we take a look at the Wisconsin juvenile 
murder arrests, what we will see, as well as in this graph, is that — 
I say this unfortunately and hoping that there's total understand- 
ing in this hall, homicides among whites have stayed absolutely 
stable in adult groups and in juvenile groups for 20 years when 
they were white. The growth of this tremendous amount of homi- 
cides is taking place primarily in the African-American and His- 
panic community. And if we turn our back on those people and do 
nothing to really eliminate the cause and say, well, we'll pass one 
gun law, we'll now have 23,439 gun laws on the books, this is going 
to do some good? No. It's not. 

Senator KoHL. All right. 

Mr. Fendry. Thank you. 

Senator Kohl. I appreciate your being here and I appreciate the 
frank exchange we had. I still want to say I'm concerned about 
your statement that we're prepared to work with you because you 
think it's a good idea, and then the statements that you've made 
repeatedly, saying it's not a good idea. But you're a good man and 
I enjoy having you here and thank you for coming. 

Mr. Fendry. And you, too. Senator, are a fine man. Thank you 
so much for the invitation. 

Senator KOHL. All right. [Applause.] 

[Mr. Fendry submitted the following:] 




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en in 1972. 

iw Oumbcri wrrt pantculaiiy 
dtsiurtuni for >t)ua| biatV mika 

and Crm^ci 

Central city 

Homicide report draws 
bad picture for blacks 

74% of victims tn 1992 
^'ere African-American, 
couniy study says 

Br lOM JKU S 1 UtMf«A 


When ihe body of ■ homicide 
vlc\lm Is mliaJ into the MUwuukcc 
Couniy mwiicaJ cximinct'i oHicc. 
cha/icn trt thai il'i • yoini bltck 
mm *hc livtd in ihe ceninJ ciiy 
And ii'i rvcn more Ukely \he ^ic- 
lull ^u iboi to death 

AcconJini to natisnu from ine 
mc<lic>l euniiner'i ofTioe recused 
ov«r Uk wetkend, nearty tU of 
Mihrtuka Ccmnff'i homicidci lui 
yi*t occynrr^ wixhin the uuiUul 

In 1 992. 1 54 of Ihe cDuntv'i 1 59 
hamiodes, or 91%. ocrunwJ in Uie 
city, and U6, or 92% of the loul, 

occurred within th« ciry'l 10 c«rv 

Uill) located 2lP codet, ibe repoa 
Myj Eijht occurred elirwncre 
within Ihe city, with only five in 
thf couoty'i iL'lmrt)*. 

Of ihoie desthi, 74*. of the 
MCtimJ *trt bliU, 19% wticj ind 
6 5^ Hupanic 

The repon sujjem thji il- 

thouah blacki rrultf up only jO^ of 

the aty'i populiiior ind only 20% 
of the county*!, they were d:ipn> 
poriionttely mort likely ih«n 
*hiie5 Of other racial groups to die 

«r Ih* haryfh n^nthm. 

"Il deijl) sho*^ ii his nothing 
to do with color — a hu to do 
* povcn) und il h^s lo Jw *'iJi a 
lack of opponunity,* Uid Jctnnci- 
ta Robirucn. tx>fouodfr and e>ec- 
uiive dtreciot ofCarwt Youth Dr- 
velopmenl "You can taJce the lub- 

ur^M, make them a pocket of po^er* 

ty, take a*iy theu hope and the) 
would turn on themJcWei, loo * 

The rrpon alao aota that teen- 
Pitas* n* Ra^oft pn^t 14 

Out of the )8 te«na|r hociu 
cidex J5 ol them, oi t)b^, wrrr 
black males ind i or 21%. »err 

blacV ffmllp» Three Hnn»'iii' 

males «nt^ 1*^0 while maica ac- 
counted for i% and 3% of Ihe tola! 

By fax, the weapon of choit^ 
4;«i % j».n The number nf petiplc 
killed by in •luilanl using a firr- 
im was 114 Of those, 75, ot 6o%. 

wcrt lxl*x«" 13 ajtd 29 >cait of 

E Michael McClnr, Mdw«uker 
County diilnct iiiomey, called ihe 
ftguret 'trag'cally sad for youn| 
Uack merv" 

"Typicsll). lit Wack on black, 
white on while and brown on 
brown," McCann said, referring lo 
both kiUn and victim. "Thert'i 
vcf^ linla inurrgoal »la>'in^' 

McCann also pointed lo the 
hijh litdihood of irrsi and con- 
viction me? foe homiotiev tnjl ac- 
krowledged that h doet nothing to 
brincbiCk a victim 

"Thjj also ihowj the importaiict 
of giving vomebody a Hike in soci- 
ety,' McCann M:d "In violent 
tJime, whert an olTeodet does n 1 
feel ihal he hu anything to lose ili 
very diHiruh to come up with de- 
terrtnce If a guy has a ^b, buying 
I houae, he's not likely uD tieai i car 
or commit violent crimev" 

The nurrih^f of yr^itng people 

who died in 1992 includes the four 
young people who were slain in 
Deximber at a Nurih 3idc J.i^ 
bouse. One of them, Frank Cook^ 
17. was deahnc dnigs from the 
house with some frier>ds The three 
oiben wwt vuiung for what they 
wT;it told was a party Kirrj Uoli. 
14^ and Patriaa Simmons and Ay 
thia Lewis, both 13. Four men 
have been conMcied of the shoo; 

Thv Tpofi alio found ll"jil 12% 

of the homicide victims in llie 3fr 
to 39- year-old age group were black 
main and 23%wtit white nalee 
The oenirally located Zl? codes 

thai law 92% of ih* homicid^e lail 

tMPd»> Julj 25^ 1 .93 

95%' Of slaylngs 
In central city 

CM tha 159 ^lwiul<•• County 
homicides In 1992 all biA ftva 
we'C commmed'ln the city And 
145. or 95% od^ city total, 
happened tn one -of 10 ocnt/al 
ZIP codet f 



bast Side and River- 

(S30t — dc^ntown and the 

Dca/Nonh Side 

U204 — near South Side 
M205 - North Side 
S3206 - Nor.b Side 

ISXIt - ntiai Wot 

S3212 — Rjverweu and Nonh 

63216 — NonhwtitSidf 
R3J J3 — nea/ Nonh Side 

Hotaooit DaorriD Oviitau 

Suit, thtif *>t» aome good nr-*i 
in !isi yearns numbers Homi: da 
in the cit> djoppcd about 8% from 

But thai :)bbnires what man* 
$«« OS problem ^or the eniur 
Milwaukee a/ra. not;usi the :it> 

"1 ihink people see it in ihc 
paper, ice that its noi in tnci: 
neighborhood in the central cit> 
and not worry abojt it," MrCanc 
uid '^t caiino' call ourselves o^- 
Jjed rf >»e alio* this lis a bLgh. 
on ibe cnije tKjdj poliuc * 


Senator Kohl. Well, our next guest really needs no introduction 
to the people here today. She is, of course, Sarah Brady, who, with 
her husband Jim, is the chief architect of the measure to require 
a waiting period and a background check for the purchase of a 
handgun and a background check on all firearms purchases. Today, 
Sarah is appearing in her capacity as chair of both Handgun Con- 
trol, Inc., and as affiliate of the Center to Prevent Handgun Vio- 
lence. So we welcome you here today, Sarah, and your full written 
statement will be inserted in the record. We are delighted to have 
you as our guest and we would be delighted to hear from you. 


Mrs. Brady. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and allow me to say I 
am delighted to be here, and I want to commend you for taking 
such a leadership role in the effort to save America's children from 
this great epidemic and threat of gun violence that we have heard 
so very much about today. 

During the last decade, there was, as the FBI has described it, 
an unprecedented level of juvenile violence has occurred in this 
country. Even more disturbing than the rising incidences of crime 
is the intensity and character of the violence. Acts of vandalism 
have given away to increased theft and larceny, while assaults 
have given way to rapes and killings. The trend is all too clear. 
Both the perpetrators and the victims of violent crimes in America 
are getting younger and younger. Kids are killing kids, and it's a 
nationwide problem. No state is immune. No community. It is not, 
as you heard just previously, an inner city problem only. It is hap- 
pening in suburbs all over the country. It is happening in rural 
areas to great extent. It is not just em inner city problem. 

The numbers of juveniles arrested for murder here in Wisconsin 
soared from 14 in 1988, to 94 in 1992. By anybody's measure, that 
is a tragic development. And make no mistake whatsoever about it, 
guns are playing a leading role in this tragedy. The number of ju- 
veniles arrested for weapons violations here in Wisconsin rose from 
1,315 in 1988 to 2,421 in 1992. 

I am the parent myself of a 14-year-old, and I am increasingly 
apprehensive about the safety of our children. And I know I'm not 
alone. A recent Harris poll released earlier this year, found that 77 
percent of adults, including 58 percent of gun owners, believed that 
children are endangered by guns. Only 29 percent believed that 
most children are safe from violence in their schools. One in five 
parents said they have or know someone who has a child who was 
wounded or killed by another child who had a gun. That's one in 
five parents. One in six pediatricians in this country has treated 
a gunshot wound. And I contrast that to Canada, where they were 
getting ready to do a seminar on how to treat gunshot victims, not 
just children. They could not find a pediatrician or a physician in 
all of Canada who had treated enough gunshot victims to be able 
to participate in the seminar. And one out of every six of our pedia- 
tricians here in the United States has treated a gunshot victim. 


I think we can all shudder when we think that one in 20 high 
school students has carried a gun. I'm a former school teacher my- 
self, and I can't today even comprehend the fear that my former 
colleagues must face today. Fear that one of their students will pull 
a gun on another student. Fear that they may pull a gun on them. 
How can we expect the next generation of kids to grow up into pro- 
ductive, caring, educated adults, when, instead of concentrating on 
learning, their first concern today is survival? 

And let me stress one point. No, there are no easy solutions, and 
there is no one solution to this problem. The epidemic of gun vio- 
lence plaguing our country cannot be solved overnight, nor can it 
be solved with one single law or prescription. It's going to take a 
multiple-pronged solution, and I think we've heard a lot about that 
today in previous testimony. And it must be attacked on many lev- 

One such level is certainly education. We need to educate all 
Americans and especially our youth, about the dangers of guns. 
The Center to Prevent Handgun Violence has been reaching — and 
that's an organization that I chair — has been reaching school-aged 
children and parents in cities across America with an innovative 
school-based curriculum. It's called the STAR program. Straight 
Talk About Risks. And it emphasizes the importance of conflict 
avoidance and gun prevention. Gun violence prevention. Excuse 
me. And it has become a demonstrated success. It is a pre-kinder- 
garten through 12th year program. It is not anti-gun, but it is 
showing children other ways to solve life's problems than through 
violence and through picking up weapons. 

We need to educate parents about how to keep guns away from 
the hands of children, to be locked in an area where kids cannot 
get a hold of them. I myself got involved in this, not because my 
own husband was involved in an assassination attempt and shot, 
but because my son, when he was 5 years old, happened to hop into 
a pick-up truck in Illinois, where my husband's from, we were 
going to go swimming, and as he got in, he reached on the seat and 
picked up off the seat what he thought was a toy, very much like 
what the attorney general had here, and started kind of playing 
with it, and I took it from him and I said, "Scott, you don't wave 
a toy at anyone," and as I did, I realized with horror it was not 
a toy but a fully loaded .22, one very much like the one that had 
several years before hit my husband. And I realized at that point 
that we in the United States were taking a much more, too cavalier 
an attitude toward weapons. Any human being who would leave a 
gun on the seat of a car for a child to pick up is totally irrespon- 
sible, and something needs to be done about it. So we need to edu- 
cate parents, and all Americans as well, about gun safety. 

Yes, we do need to pass laws, too. You probably are familiar with 
our efforts to pass the Brady Bill. The Brady Bill would merely re- 
quire a five-business day waiting period so that police can run 
background checks in states that don't already run background 
checks, so that a handgun purchaser can be checked out to be sure 
they're not a fugitive or a felon or haven't been adjudicated men- 
tally ill, or that they are, indeed, of proper age. We really believe 
that this is the cornerstone of an effective national gun policy. We 
have been working for 6 years now to pass this common sense leg- 


islation, and I was going to be able to say I was pleased that tomor- 
row there was going to be a hearing at which my husband and I 
were going to testify in the House Judiciary Committee, but it has 
been canceled. Hopefully that will happen within the next several 

And we believe that the Brady Bill will become law this fall. 
Hopefully with discussion first on the senate floor, and Senator, I 
want to thank you for your loyal support of this legislation. 

As mentioned before, in addition to the Brady Bill, we also need 
tighter regulation and supervision of the 280,000 federally licensed 
gun dealers in this country. We also need a ban on assault weap- 
ons. Now, I don't believe in banning handguns, but I do believe 
that there are a certain class of weapons that don't belong in civil- 
ian hands. Today we do not allow civilians to own bazookas or nu- 
clear weapons or rocket launchers, and I think a majority of Ameri- 
cans today feel that military style assault weapons is the point at 
which we have to draw the line. 

But just as importantly, as we're doing here today, we need to 
directly address the problem of kids and guns. And I'm delighted 
that many states are not waiting for Congress to act on this prob- 
lem. And I commend you again for bringing it to Congress's atten- 
tion, and I hope that very shortly it will become Federal law. 

I am pleased, and you probably all have heard, that last week 
the Colorado state legislature met in a special session to pass legis- 
lation banning the possession of handguns by minors. Colorado now 
joins 28 states, including Wisconsin, that already ban the open car- 
rying of handguns by minors under the age of 18. But more needs 
to be done. In many of the remaining 21 states, minors of any age 
may legally carry a handgun. And that's why we must have Fed- 
eral legislation. And Mr. Chairman, that's why I support your bill 
and support it strongly. Current Federal law is simply inadequate. 
It bars the purchasing of handguns by minors, but does nothing 
further to prohibit children from possessing handguns. Your bill 
which will prohibit kids from possessing handguns except while 
under the direct supervision of an adult, is a law that we can all 
live with, a law that will begin to help save lives and reduce the 
climate of fear in our schools. No, it will not end all juvenile gun 
violence, but it sure is a logical place to start. If we don't make it 
illegal for minors to possess handguns, how can we even begin to 
address the problem of kids and guns? 

In conclusion, again, I commend you, Mr. Chairman, for your 
steadfast leadership in addressing the problem of children and 
guns and gun violence. I appreciate your commitment and concern, 
and I've seen it in action over the years in Washington, and I'm 
very happy, and thankful, for the opportunity to appear here today 
to talk about this issue. 

Senator KOHL. Well, thank you very much, Mrs. Brady. I would 
like to ask you this question: In spite of the polls that show that 
9 out of 10 Americans support the Brady Bill and have supported 
the Brady Bill for several years now, and over half of Americans 
support handgun prohibitions with respect to minors, why is it that 
we have not been able to pass legislation? 

Mrs. Brady. Well, you know as well as I do that pohtics is a 
funny business. For many years the gun lobby has had a very 


strong influence over lawmakers in Washington. It's a very typical 
example of what can happen in any area, a very small group with 
a lot of money can wield an inordinate amount of power over politi- 
cians. That for a long time was a problem. 

Recently, however, and as the Senator will remember, the Brady 
Bill did pass both in the House and Senate 2 years ago, or a year- 
and-a-half ago. We have the votes to pass this very important bill, 
and other bills. The gun lobby still is able to influence people in 
leadership positions or in committee and subcommittee positions, to 
make it difficult to bring it on the floor. But times are a changing 
and people all over the country, as was brought forth in the recent 
Harris pole, are demanding of their lawmakers, we are tired of this 
violence. No, we don't want to ban guns, but we do want some com- 
mon sense legislation that's going to make it more difficult for 
criminals and kids and those adjudicated mentally ill to get guns. 
We have to do something. 

No law is perfect, no law is going to solve all our problems. We 
have laws against murder, it doesn't stop murder. But we certainly 
aren't going to change that law, I know. We have to begin to start 
saving these kids' lives, and I predict because of President Clinton's 
strong leadership for the Brady Bill, Senator Mitchell is anxious to 
bring it up, and with your help and work as you've given us, I pre- 
dict that it will pass this year. 

Senator Kohl. All right. One more question, Mrs. Brady. The 
NRA and others make the argument that we already have 22,000 
gun laws on the books throughout our country and yet the problem 
is getting worse. They claim that this is proof that firearm laws 
have not worked to reduce gun-related violence. How do you re- 
spond to that, Mrs. Brady. 

Mrs. Brady. OK. First of all, I would say, no one has ever been 
able to figure out where this 22,000 figure came from. According 
to the Justice Department we can only figure out close to 15 or 
16,000 laws, most of which are very local, some very antiquated. 
They certainly are not Federal laws. And it points out what we 
need are effective, national, uniform laws that are enforceable and 
that are enforced. And we need effective laws, and that's what 
we're working toward with the Brady Bill, that's with your bill, 
which would be put into place federally, what Wisconsin already 
has in place, would do, would make it uniform so that you can't go 
to other states and traffic guns back in, so that everybody across 
the country is on an even footing. 

Senator KOHL. And it also points out, does it, Mrs. Brady, that 
we're not talking, in terms of controlling violence, gun-related vio- 
lence, clearly we're not just talking about gun laws, there's a whole 
culture that has developed in a negative way in this country that 
contributes to the problem, whether it's parents or TV violence. 

Mrs. Brady. Yes, TV violence certainly is a great problem that 
we have, the glamorization of weapons. Parents who teach, and you 
know, a parent who has a gun in the house for self-protection and 
takes the attitude, you know, I'm going to blow away the first per- 
son who walks in this house and tries to steal my TV, what mes- 
sage does that send to a child? The kid goes to school and someone 
tries to take his lunch money, his first reaction is, you know, 
maybe I should go home and get Dad's gun and blow this guy 


away. We are sending those messages. And when we talk about it 
only being inner city, no, we're talking about rural areas where 
that attitude does exist. And we really need, as a nation, to talk 
about what a civilized nation believes and what do we want to 
teach the next generation about getting along. Do we want an 
armed future generation where, every time you bump into some- 
body or get mad at somebody, you're going to solve it with weap- 
ons? Or are we going to begin today to solve the problem? 

Senator Kohl. Well, we thank you for being here. You have con- 
tributed enormously to the discussion. 

Mrs. Brady. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. 

Senator KoHL. And you come here with great effort, and on be- 
half of everybody here in this state, thank you very much, Mrs. 

Mrs, Brady. Thank you again. [Applause.] 

Senator KoHL. And we thank you all for coming. It's, been a very 
enlightening hearing. We know that there are many problems with 
respect to kids and guns and violence, and not limited to laws, it's 
a whole societal culture that we need to work on, and with your 
help we will make progress. Thank you very much. [Applause.] 

[Whereupon, at 11:05 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 


Additional Submissions for the Record 

Prepared Statement of Senator Pressler 

Mr. Chairman, thank you for bringing the issue of gun violence among our chil- 
dren before the committee. It is a timely subject, and one that has been a concern 
of mine. Although South Dakota has had only isolated incidents of juvenile handgun 
crime, we are not immune to this national problem. 

In September 1991, South Dakota was faced with a shocking gun incident that 
made national headlines. A Rapid City high school student held 21 of his classmates 
hostage at gunpoint for more than 4 hours. One brave young student, Chris Ericks, 
managed to disarm the gunman. Fortunately, no one was injured. Chris was later 
nominated for a medal by President Bush for his heroic act. 

While I believe the firearm in that instance was an assault rifle and not a hand- 
gun, it is an example of the dramatic and serious problem of illegal gun use by 
young Americans. This episode challenged school officials to examine the number of 
juveniles in possession of illegal weapons. 

Since the incident, more than fourteen juveniles have been expelled from the 
school system for possession of illegal weapons. Even more disheartening, nearly 
half were expelled at the junior high school level. Rapid City police reported that 
juvenile weapons arrests have risen 41 percent in the last 10 years. It is apparent 
that the plague of juvenile crime has crossed South Dakota's borders. 

South Dakota youths generally have an overall respect for firearm safety. Hunting 
is a favorite pastime of many South Dakotans. Fireeum safety education is fun- 
damental among youthful hunters in my state. In order to receive a hunting license, 
juveniles fifteen and under must attend a firearm safety education class. This re- 
spect for firearm safety is reflected by our state's small number of firearm accidents. 

Although the Youth Handgun Safety Act of 1993 may invite the Federal Govern- 
ment into an area traditionally controlled by the states, I feel certain measures at 
the Federal level may be needed to alleviate juvenile crime. I am concerned, how- 
ever, with the manner in which a juvenile in violation of this bill would be handled 
through the Federal court system. 

To the extent that such Federal criminal procedures would be effective, I would 
be inclined to look favorably on this legislation. Although the need for this bill might 
not be as apparent in my home state of South Dakota, it could help the juvenile 
crime problem that exists across our nation. 

I look forward to hearing the testimony today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

National Rifle Association of America, 

Institute for Legislative Action, 

Washington DC, June 11, 1993. 

Hon. Joseph R. Biden, 

Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, 

U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. 

Dear Mr. Chairman: In response to your inquiry at the June 9, 1993, "Kids and 
Guns" hearing before the Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice, enclosed is a summary 
of noted Federal Court Cases regarding the Second Amendment. 

These materials, likewise, have been provided to the chsdrman of the subcommit- 
tee for inclusion in the hearing record. 



I look forward to working with you on this and other issues of mutual concern. 


Susan Lamson, 

Federal Affairs Division. 


Federal Cases Regarding the Second Amendment 

U.S. supreme court cases 

United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876). This was the first case in which 
the Supreme Court had the opportunity to interpret the Second Amendment. The 
Court recognized that the right of the people to keep and bear arms was a right 
which existed prior to the Constitution when it stated that such a right "is not a 
right granted by the Constitution * * * [njeither is it in any manner dependent upon 
that instrument for its existence." The indictment in Cruikshank charged, inter alia, 
a conspiracy by Klansmen to prevent blacks from exercising their civil rights, in- 
cluding the bearing of arms for lawful purposes. The Court held, however, that be- 
cause the right to keep and bear arms existed independent of the Constitution, and 
the Second Amendment guaianteed only that the right shall not be infringed by 
Congress, the Federal Gk)vernment had no power to punish a violation of the right 
by a private individual; rather, citizens had "to look for their protection against any 
violation by their fellow-citizens" of their right to keep and bear arms to the police 
power of the state. 

Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886). Although the Supreme Court affirmed the 
holding in Cruikshank that the Second Amendment, standing alone, applied only to 
action by the Federal Government, it nonetheless found the states without power 
to infringe upon th*^ -n^ *: to keep and bear arms, holding that "the States cannot, 
even laying the constitutional provision in question out of view, prohibit the people 
from keeping and be 'ng arms, as so to deprive the United States of their rightful 
resource for maintaining the public security and disable the people from performing 
their duty to the general 'government." 

Presser, moreover, plainly suggested that the Second Amendment applies to the 
states through the Four ceenth Amendment and thus that a state cannot forbid indi- 
viduals to keep and bear arms. To understand why, it is necessary to understand 
the statutory scheme the Court had before it. 

The statute under which Presser was convicted did not forbid individuals to keep 
and bear arms but rather forbade "bodies of men to associate together as mihtary 
organizations, or to drill or parade with arms in cities and towns unless authorized 
by law * * * ." Thus, the Court concluded that the statute did not infringe the right 
to keep and bear arms. 

The Court, however, went on to discuss the Privileges and Immunities Clause of 
the Fourteenth Amendment, noting that "[i]t is only the privileges and immunities 
of citizens of the United States that the clause relied on was intended to protect." 
As the Court had already held that the substantive right to keep and bear arms 
was not infringed by the Illinois statute since that statue did not prohibit the keep- 
ing and bearing of arms but rather prohibited military like exercises by armed men, 
the Court concluded that it did not need address the question of whether the state 
law violated the Second Amendment as applied to the states by the Fourteenth 
Amendment. , , . , , 

Miller v. Texas, 153 U.S. 535 (1894). In this case, the Court confirmed that it had 
never addressed the issue of the Second Amendment applying to the states through 
the Fourteenth Amendment. This case remains the last word on this subject by the 
Court. Miller challenged a Texas statute on the bearing of pistols as violative of the 
Second, Fourth, and Fourteenth Amendments. But he asserted these arguments for 
the first time after his conviction had been affirmed W a state appellate court. Reit- 
erating Cruikshank and Presser, the Supreme Court first found that the Second and 
Fourth Amendments, of themselves, did not limit state action. The Court then 
turned to the claim that the Texas statute violated the rights to bear arms and 
against warrantless searches as incorporated in the fourteenth amendment. But be- 
cause the Court would not hear objections not made in a timely fashion, the Court 
refused to consider Miller's contentions. Thus, rather than reject incorporation of the 
Second and Fourth Amendments in the Fourteenth, the Supreme Court merely re- 
fused to decide the defendant's claim because its powers of adiudication were limited 
to the review of errors timely assigned in the trial court. The Court left open the 


possibility that the right to keep and bear arms and freedom from warrantless 
searches would apply to the states through the fourteenth amendment. 

U.S. V. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939). This is the only case in which the Supreme 
Court has had the opportunity to apply the Second Amendment to a Federal fire- 
arms statute. The Court, however, carefully avoided making an unconditional deci- 
sion regarding the statute's constitutionality; it instead devised a test by which to 
measure the constitutionality of statutes relating to firearms and remanded the case 
to the trial court for an evidentiary hearing (the trial court had held that section 
11 of the National Firearms Act was unconstitutional). The Court remanded to the 
case because it had concluded that: 

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 
"shotgun having a barrel of less than 18 inches in length" at this time has some 
reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated mili- 
tia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep 
and bear such an instrument. Certeiinly it is not within judicial notice that this 
weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could con- 
tribute to the common defense. 

Thus, for the keeping and bearing of a firearm to be constitutionally protected, 
the firearm should be a militia-type arm.i 

The case also made clear that the militia consisted of "all males physically capable 
of acting in concert for the common defense" and that "when called for service these 
men were expected to appear bearing arms suppUed by themselves and of the kind 
in common use at the time." 2 In setting forth this definition of the militia, the Court 
implicitly rejected the view that the Second Amendment guarantees a right only to 
those individuals who are members of the militia. Had the Court viewed the Second 
Amendment as guaranteeing the right to keep and bear arms only to "all males 
physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense," it would certainly 
have discussed whether, on remand, there should also be evidence that the defend- 
ants met the qualifications for inclusion in the militia, much as it did with regard 
to the militia use of a short-barrelled shotgun. 

Lewis V. United States, 445 U.S. 95 (1980). Lewis recognized — in summarizing the 
holding of Miller, supra, as "the Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep 
and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preserva- 
tion or efficiency of a well-regulated miUtia' " (emphasis added) — that Miller had fo- 
cused upon the type of firearm. Further, Lewis was concerned only with whether 
the provision of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 which pro- 
hibits the possession of firearms by convicted felons (codified in 18 U.S.C. 922(g) in 
1986) violated the Second Amendment. Thus, since convicted felons historically were 
and are subject to the loss of numerous fundamental rights of citizenship — including 
the right to vote, hold office, and serve on juries — it was not erroneous for the Court 
to have concluded that laws prohibiting the possession of firearms by a convicted 
felon "are neither based upon constitutionally suspect criteria, nor do they trench 
upon any constitutionally protected Uberties." 

United States v. Verdugo-Urauirdez, 110 S. Ct. 3039 (1990). This case involved the 
meaning of the term "the people" in the fourth amendment. The Court unanimously 
held that the term "the people" in the Second Amendment had the same meaning 
as in the Preamble to the Constitution and in the first, fourth, and ninth amend- 
ments, i.e., that "the people" means at least all citizens and legal aliens while in 
the United States. This case thus resolves any doubt that the Second Amendment 
guarantees an individual right. 


U.S. V. Nelson, 859 F.2d 1318 (8th Cir. 1988). This case is not a firearms case; 
it involves the Federal switchblade knife act. Based on the holding in U.S. v 

1 According to Art. I, section 8, cl. 15 of the Constitution, the functions of the militia are: "to 
execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections, and repel Invasions * * * ." Thus, the 
militia has a law enforcement function, a quasi law enforcement/quasi military function, and 
a military function. As a result, those firearms which are "arms" within the meaning of the Sec- 
ond Amendment are those which could be used to fulfill any of these functions. 

2 Thus, when combined with the militia test — see fn. 1 — it is clear that cannons, trench 
mortors, rockets, missiles, antitank weapons (such as bazookas), and bombs would not be "arms" 
within the meaning of the Second Amendment. 

3 Of the 13 Federal courts of appeals, 8 have spoken on the Second Amendment, half holding 
that the right guaranteed is not an individual right, half holding that it is an individual right; 


75-909 0-94-7 


Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, 553 (1876), that the right to keep and bear arms "is not 
a right granted by the Constitution," the Eighth Circuit concluded that the right is 
not fundamental. Of course, the statement in Cruikshank — a case which involved 
the theft of firearms by private citizens from other private citizens — simply meant 
that the right was not created by the Constitution, but that it preexistea the Con- 
stitution and that the Second Amendment was "to restrict the powers of the na- 
tional government, leaving the people to look for their protection against any viola- 
tion by their fellow-citizens of the rights it recognizes to the state criminal laws. 
Moreover, the Eighth Circuit's one paragraph opinion cited Miller, Oakes, infra, and 
Warin, infra, without any explanation, in holding that the Second Amendment has 
been analyzed "purely in term of protecting state militias, rather than individual 
rights." Wnile this statement is true, it certainly does not mean that Miller rejected 
the conclusion that an individual right was protected. Thus, the Eighth Circuit did 
not err in concluding that it was important that "Nelson has made no arguments 
that the Act would impair any state militia ♦ * * ." 

U.S. V. Cody, 460 F.2d 34 (8th Cir. 1972). This case involved the making of a false 
statement by a convicted felon in connection with the purchase of a firearm. After 
citing Miller for the propositions that "the Second Amendment is not an absolute 
bar to congressional regulation of the use or possession of firearms" and that the 
"Second Amendment's guarantee extends only to use or possession which 'has some 
reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia,' " 
the court held that there was "no evidence that the prohibition of section 922(a)(6) 
obstructs the maintenance of a well-regulated militia." Thus, the court acknowl- 
edged that the Second Amendment would be a bar to some congressional regulation 
of the use or possession of firearms and recognized that Miller required the intro- 
duction of evidence which showed a militia use for the firearm involved. 

U.S. V. Decker, 446 F.2d 164 (8th Cir. 1971). Like Synnes, infra, the court here 
held that the defendant could "present * * * evidence indicating a conflict" between 
the statute at issue and the Second Amendment. Since he failed to do so, the court 
declined to hold that the recordkeeping requirements of the Gun Control Act of 1968 
violated the Second Amendment. As with Synnes, the court once again implicitly 
recognized that the right guaranteed belonged to individuals. 

US. V. Synnes, 438 F.2d 764 (8th Cir. 1971), vacated on other grounds, 404 U.S. 
1009 ( 1972). This is another case involving possession of a firearm by a convicted 
felon. In holding that 18 U.S.C. App. Section 1202(a) (reenacted in 18 U.S.C. 922(g) 
in 1986) did not infringe the Second Amendment, the court held (based upon its par- 
tially erroneous view of Miller) that there needed to be evidence that the statute 
impaired the maintenance of a well-regulated militia. As there was "no showing that 
prohibiting possession of firearms by felons obstructs the maintenance of a 'well reg- 
ulated militia,'" the court saw "no conflict" between section 1202(a) and the Second 
Amendment. While Miller focused on the need to introduce evidence that the fire- 
arm had a militia use, Synnes at least recognized the relevance of a militia nexus. 
There was a clear recognition, moreover, that the Second Amendment guarantees 
an individual right. 

Gilbert Equipment Co. Inc. v. Higgins, 709 F.Supp. 1071 (S.D. Ala. 1989), affd, 
894 F.2d 412 (11th Cir. 1990) {mem). The court held that the Second Amendment 
"guarantees to all Americans 'the right to keep and bear arms' * * * ." 

U.S. V. Oakes, 564 F.2d 384 (10th Cir. 1977), cert, denied, 435 U.S. 926 (1978). 
Although the court recognized the requirement of Miller that the defendant show 
that the firearm in question have a "connection to the militia," the court concluded, 
without any explanation of how it reached the conclusion, that the mere fact that 
the defendant was a member of the Kansas militia would not establish that connec- 
tion. In light of the fact that Miller (which defines the militia as including "all males 
physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense") saw no relevance 
in the status of a defendant with respect to the militia, but instead focused upon 
the firearm itself, this conclusion is not without basis. C/.S. v. Swinton, 521 F.2d 
1255 (10th Cir. 1975). In the context of interpreting the meaning of the phrase "en- 
gaging in the business of dealing in firearms" in 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(1), the court 
noted, in dicta, merely that "there is no absolute constitutional right of an individ- 
ual to possess a firearm." Emphasis added. Clearly, therefore, the court recognized 
that the right is an individual one, albeit not an absolute one. 

U.S. V. Johnson, 497 F.2d 548 (4th Cir. 1974). This is one of the three court of 
appeals cases which uses the term "collective right." The entire opinion, however, 
is one sentence, which states that the Second Amendment "only confers a collective 
right of keeping and bearing arms which must bear a 'reasonable relationship to the 

one circuit has gone both ways. The remaining four have been silent. All of these cases, how- 
ever, precede the Supreme Court's decision in IJ.S. v. Verdugo Urquidez. 


preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia'.^ " As authority for this state- 
ment, the court cites Miller and Cody v. U.S., supra. Yet, as the Supreme Court 
in Lewis, supra, made clear, Miller held that it is the firearm itself, not the act of 
keeping and bearing the firearm, which must have a "reasonable relationship to the 
preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated mihtia." The court did, however, recog- 
nize that Miller required evidence of the militia nexus. Moreover, the particular pro- 
vision at issue in Johnson concerned the interstate transportation of a firearm by 
convicted felons, a class of persons which historically has suffered the loss of numer- 
ous rights (including exclusion from the militia) accorded other citizens. 

U.S. V Bowdach, 414 F.Supp. 1346 (D.S. Fla 1976), affd, 561 F.2d 1160 (5th Cir. 
1977). The court held that possession of the shotgun by a nonfelon has no legal 
consequences. U.S. Const. Amend II." 

US. V. Johnson, Jr., 441 F.2d 1134 (5th Cir. 1971). Once again, this decision 
merely quotes from Miller the statement concerning the requirement of an evi- 
dentiary showing of a militia nexus and a consequent rejection, without even the 
briefest of analysis, of the defendant's challenging to the constitutionality of the Na- 
tional Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA). Apparently, the defendant failed to put on evi- 
dence, as required by Miller, that the firearm at issue had a militia use. Thus, Mil- 
ler bound the appeals court to reject the defendant's challenge. 

Quilici V. Village of Morton Grove, 695 F.2d 261 (7th Cir. 1982), cert, denied, 464 
U.S. 863 (1983). In rejecting a Second and Fourteenth Amendment challenge to a 
village handgun ban, the court held that the Second Amendment, either of itself or 
by incorporation through the Fourteenth Amendment, "does not apply to the states. 

* * * " The court, in dicta, went on, however, to "comment" on the ' scope of the Sec- 
ond Amendment," incorrectly summarizing Miller as holding that the right extends 
"only to those arms which are necessary to maintain a well regulated militia." Thus, 
finding (without evidence on the record) that "individually owned handguns [are 
not] military weapons," the court concluded that "the right to keep and bear hand- 
guns is not guaranteed by the Second Amendment." 

U.S. V. McCutcheon, 446 F.2d 133 (7th Cir. 1971). This is another case involving 
the NFA in which the court merely followed Miller in holding that the NFA did not 
infringe the Second Amendment. 

Stevens v. United States, 440 F.2d 144 (6th Cir 1971). In a one sentence holding, 
the court simply concluded that the Second Amendment "applies only to the right 
of the State to maintain a militia and not to the individual's right to bear arms 

* * * " Merely citing Miller as authority for this conclusion, the court undertook no 
analysis of Miller or of the history of the ratification of the Second Amendment. This 
case, moreover, involved possession of firearms by convicted felons, a class of per- 
sons whose right traditionally have been more restricted than law-abiding citi- 
zens.U.S. v. Day, 476 F.2d 562 (6th Cir. 1973). Citing Miller, the court merely con- 
cluded, in reviewing a challenge to the statute barring dishonorably discharged per- 
sons from possessing firearms, that "there is no absolute right of an individual to 
possess a firearm." Emphasis added. Since there are certain narrowly defined class- 
es of untrustworthy persons, such as convicted felons and, as here, persons dishon- 
orably discharged from the armed forces, who may be barred the possession of fire- 
arms, it is a truism to say that there is not an absolute right to possess firearms. 
In so sa5dng, the court implicitly recognized the individual right of peaceful and hon- 
est citizens to possess firearm. 

U.S. V. Wann, 530 F.2d 103 (6th Cir 1976), cert, denied, 426 U.S. 948 (1976). Fol- 
lowing, and relying upon, its earlier decision in Stevens, supra, the court simply con- 
cluded, without any reference to the history of the Second Amendment, that it "is 
clear the Second Amendment guarantees a collective rather than an individual 
right." The court also indicated that, in reaching its decision, it was relying upon 
the First Circuit's decision in Cases, infra. Yet in concluding that not all arms were 
protected by the Second Amendment, Cases did not hold, as did Warin, that the Sec- 
ond Amendment afforded individuals no protections whatever. Warin also erred in 
concluding that Warin's relationship to the militia was relevant to determining 
whether his possession of a machine gun was protected by the Second Amendment 
since the Supreme Court in Miller focused on the firearm itself, not the individual 
involved. In fact. Miller quite expansively defined the constitutional militia as en- 
compassing "all males physically capable of action in concert for the common de- 

U.S. V. Tot, 131 F.2d 261 (3rd Cir. 1942), rev'd on other grounds, 319 U.S. 463 
(1943). This is another case involving possession of a firearm by a convicted felon. 
Despite holding that the failure of the defendant to prove, as required by Miller, 

4 As with all rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment does not "confer" 
any rights; it merely protects rights from government interference. 


a militia use for the firearm was an adequate basis for ruling against the defendant, 
the court, in dicta, concluded that the Second Amendment "was not adopted with 
individual rights in mind * * *." This result was based on reliance on an extremely 
brief— and erroneous — analysis of common law and colonial history. ^ In addition, ap- 
parently recognizing that it decided the case on unnecessarily broad grounds, the 
court noted that, at common law, while there was a right to bear arms, that right 
was not absolute and could be restricted for certain classes of persons "who have 
previously * * * been shown to be aggressors against society." 

U.S. V. Graves, 554 F.2d 65 (3rd Cir. 1977). Since the defendant in this case did 
not raise the Second Amendment as a challenge to the "statutory program which 
restricts the right to bear arms of convicted felons and other persons of dangerous 
propensities," 6 the only discussion of the Second Amendment is found in a footnote 
wherein the court states "[a]rguably, any regulation of firearms may be violative of 
this constitutional provision." 

Cases V. United States, 131 F.2d 916 (1st Cir. 1942), cert, denied sub nom., 
Velazquez v. U.S., 319 U.S. 770 (1943). In this case, the court held that the Supreme 
Court in Miller had not intended "to formulate a general rule" regarding which 
arms were protected by the Second Amendment and concluded, therefore, that many 
types of arms were not protected. Nonetheless, the court in Cases expressly ac- 
knowledged that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right when it 
noted that the law in question "undoubtedly curtails to some extent the right of in- 
dividuals to keep and bear arms * ♦ * ." Id. at 921. Emphasis added. Moreover, 
the court in Cases concluded, as properly it should have, that Miller should not be 
read as holding that the Second Amendment guaranteed the right to possess or use 
large weapons that could not be carried by an individual. 


U.S. V. Gross, 313 F.Supp. 1330 (S.D. Ind. 1970), affd on other grounds, 451 F.2d 
1355 (7th Cir. 1971). In rejecting a challenge to the constitutionality of the require- 
ment that those who engage in the business of dealing in firearms must be licensed, 
the court, following its view of Miller, held that the defendant had not shown that 
"the licensing of dealers in firearms in any way destroys, or impairs the efficiency 
of, a well related militia." 

U.S. V. Kraase, 340 F.Supp. 147 (E.D. Wis. 1972). In ruUng on a motion to dismiss 
an indictment, the court rejected a facial constitutional challenge to 18 U.S.C. 
922(a)(5)— which prohibited sales of firearms to residents of other states. Recogniz- 
ing that an individual right was protected, it held that "Second Amendment protec- 
tion might arise if proof were offered at the trial demonstrating that his possession 
of the weapon in question had a reasonable relationship to the maintenance of a 
'well-regulated Militia.' " 

Thompson v. Dereta, 549 F.Supp. 297 (D. Utah 1982). An applicant for rehef from 
disabilities (a prohibited person) brought an action against the Federal agents in- 
volved in denying his application. The court dismissed the case, holding that, be- 
cause there was no "absolute constitutional right of an individual to possess a fire- 
arm," there was "no liberty or property interest sufficient to give rise to a procedural 
due process claim." 

Vietnamese Fishermen's Assoc, v. KKK, 543 F.Supp. 198 (S.D. Tex. 1982). Like the 
statute faced by the Supreme Court in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1876), the 
Texas statute and the injunction at issue here prohibited private military activity. 
Mischaracterizing Miller, the court held that the Second Amendment "prohibits only 
such infringement on the bearing of weapons as would interfere with the preserva- 
tion or efficiency of a well-regulated mintia,' organized by the State." Later, how- 
ever, the court, following Miller, explained that the "Second Amendment's guarantee 
is limited to the right to keep and bear such arms as have 'a reasonable relationship 
to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.'" The courts' under- 
standing of the Second Amendment is thus inconsistent and, given the facts of the 
case, largely dicta. 

U.S. V. Kozerski, 518 F.Supp. 1082 (D.N.H.1981), cert, denied, 469 U.S. 842 (1984). 
In the context of a challenge to the law prohibiting the possession of firearms by 
convicted felons, the court, while holding correctly (see discussion of Nelson, supra) 

sFor example, the court referred to the colonists as "a defenseless citizenry * * * ." In fact, 
it was precisely because the citizens did have arms and were not defenseless that they desired 
the Second Amendment; they did not want to ftecome defenseless. . ,■ •. 

6 Implicit in this language is the fact that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual 
right, albeit a right that may not be enjoyed by some narrowly defined class of untrustworthy 


that the Second Amendment "is not a grant of a right but a limitation upon the 
power of Congress and the national government," concluded that the right "is a col- 
lective right * * * rather that an individual right," citing only Warin, supra. As 
a district court in the First Circuit, however, the court was bound by Cases, supra, 
which expressly recognized that the right belonged to individuals. 

National Rifle Association of America, 

Institute for Legislative Action, 

Washington, DC, July 14, 1993. 

Hon. Herbert Kohl, 

Chairman, Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice, Commmittee on the Judiciary, 

U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. 

Dear Senator Kohl: On behalf of the NFA, we appreciate having had the oppor- 
tunity to testify before your Subcommittee on the subject of "Children and Gun Vio- 
lence." Attached you will find a written response to the additional questions you 

Again, thank you for hearing our views on this critical issue. If you have any fur- 
ther questions, please do not hesitate to contact me at 202-828-6359. 


Susan R. Lamson, 

Federal Affairs Division. 

Responses to Questions from Senator Kohl 

Q. Do you agree or disagree with Mrs. Brady's recommendation that the YHSA, 
which would prohibit the possession of handguns without adult supervision, should 
apply to persons under the age of 2 1? 

A. NRA does not agree that the YHSA should be amended to prohibit the posses- 
sion of handguns by, and the transfer (by a person without a Federal license) of 
handguns to, persons under 21 years of age, supposedly to be consistent with cur- 
rent Federad law which prohibits the sale of handguns by federally Ucensed dealers 
to persons under 21 years of age. 

Even if the murder arrest rate for 18 and 19 year olds is higher than for any 
other age group (in fact, 18-20 year olds have had among the highest arrest rates 
for homicide for decades), that does not lead to the conclusion that handgun posses- 
sion should be federally proscribed for such persons. 

It should first be noted that the predominant age among the tiny minority of the 
population which misuses firearms has never been the basis for proscribing gun 
ownership among that age group. If persons in their late teens have replaced per- 
sons in tneir early 20's as the most murderous age group, that no more argues for 
prohibiting handgun ownership among 18 and 19 year olds than did the previous 
data support prohibiting handgun possession among 20-24 year olds while edlowing 
it among teenagers since they had lower homicide arrest rates than persons in their 
20's. Likewise, the dramatically lower arrest rates, for murder, of persons under 18 
surely does not mean that teenagers under the age of 17 or 18 should be allowed 
to purchase handguns from federally licensed dealers. 

While the murder arrest rates for persons 18-20 has certainly risen dramatically, 
from the point of view of evaluating the effectiveness of "gun control" laws, a key 
point — as has been noted by Professors James Wright, Joseph Sheley, and their col- 
leagues at Tulane University, under grants from the NIJ and OJJDP — is that: 

Nearly everything that leads to gun-related violence among youths is already 
against the law. What is needed are not new and more stringent gun laws but 
rather a concerted effort to rebuild the social structure of inner cities. [Joseph 
F. Sheley et al., "Gun-Related Violence in and Around inner-City Schools," 146 
American Journal of Diseases of Children 677 at 682 (1992)] 

As with all proposals for regulating law-abiding citizens on the off chance that an 
occasional criminal might be inconvenienced, the fact remains that, despite the in- 
crease in the number of teenagers arrested for homicide all data indicate that the 
vast majority of teenagers do not misuse firearms. According to the FBI Uniform 
Crime Reports, arrests for persons 18-20 for violent crimes in 1991 totalled 81,772, 
which would project to less than 25,000 gun-related violent crimes, or perhaps 
50,000 if crimes not cleared by arrest were projected in. With over 11 million 18- 
20 year olds, the portion offending with guns — assuming that each offender commits 


only one crime, an assumption that overstates the number of offenders — is at most 
0.4 percent. Add in the 30,000 weapons arrests, assuming that most were for fire- 
arms (in fact, a substantial proportion likely involve knives) and assuming that 
there was one arrest per youth (an assumption that overstates the number of of- 
fenders), the offenders remain less than 1 percent of 18-20 year olds. In terms of 
homicide involving firearms — the only crime relevant to the question — the high ar- 
rest rate still involves but one in 3,500 (.03 percent) citizens aged 18-20. 

If consistency is the goal, rather than adding a handgun possession and transfer 
ban to the proscription on sales by federally licensed dealers to persons under 21, 
the appropriate step would be to consider lowering the age for dealer sales of hand- 
guns to 18, the age for transactions involving rifles and shotguns, to conform with 
the spirit of the Constitution's recognition of the status of persons 18 years of age 
and older. 

After the Gun Control Act of 1968 made it a felony for dealers to sell handguns 
to persons 18-20 years of age, the Federal Voting Rights Act was amended (in 1970) 
to allow persons 18-20 years of age to vote in Federal elections, followed by the 
adoption of the 26th Amendment to the Constitution in 1971, lowering the age of 
franchise to 18 for state elections as well. Traditionally, the very word franchise re- 
lated to freeness or freedom and was associated with the possession of arms. Thus, 
consistency would require giving consideration to updating the GCA'68. 

Q. Notwithstanding the fact that the Federal Government can and does prosecute 
juveniles, would you be less concerned should we urge the Justice Department to 
develop — and states to adopt — a model code regulating the use of handguns by chil- 

A. It should first be noted that, despite the statement in the question, the Federal 
Government currently only punishes juveniles for offenses which would be offenses 
if committed by adults; there are no Federal juvenile status offenses, i.e., offenses 
which could only be committed by juveniles because of their status as juveniles. Our 
concern is that a Federal proscription on juvenile possession of handguns would, for 
the first time, involve the Federal Government in the enforcement of status offenses 
and that such enforcement activities would necessitate a new system of special pro- 
cedures for the Federal district courts. 

Clearly, it would alleviate the above concern if Congress was simply to urge the 
U.S. Department of Justice to develop a model state code. Nonetheless, NRA be- 
lieves it would be inappropriate for the U.S. Department of Justice to develop such 
a code. 

In the first place, the idea is repugnant to our Federal system of government. It 
is not the role of the Federal Government under the U.S. Constitution to enact legis- 
lation suggesting policies to the states; rather, the Federal Government was created 
by the states and is constitutionally empowered to regulate only in areas where 
state regulation is inadequate. Moreover, even if initially merely a suggestion, such 
a proposal would likely soon be imposed upon the states with a Federal carrot-and- 
stick approach. NRA believes that the states should take advantage of the studies 
conducted with Department of Justice funding to determine for themselves their 
own policies for dealing with the problems of juvenile misuse of firearms. 


National Rifle Association of America, 

Institute for Legislative Action, 

Washington, DC, June 11, 1993. 

Hon. Carol Moseley-Braun, 

Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice, Committee on the Judiciary, 

U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. 

Dear Senator Moseley-Braun: Information is being provided, at your request, 
for inclusion in the hearing record of the June 9, 1993, "Kids and Guns" hearing 
before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Juvenile Justice. 

1. State-by-state, 1991 Hunter Education Program Profile.i The most recent 
data available, includes a focus on the Illinois Hunter Education Profile. 

2. State-by-state, Handgun Hunting Regulations, current through 1989. This 
profile includes a 1993 update on handgun hunting in the State of Illinois. 

3. The NRA's Eddie Eagle Gun Safety Program was established in 1988. Since 
its inception, 45 grade, elementary and middle schools and school districts in 
Illinois have made inquiries to the NRA about incorporating the Eddie Eagle 
Gun Safety Program in their individual curriculums. Confidentiality of the pro- 
gram participants is reserved at their request However, specific questions on 
the program can be addressed to the NRA, Safety Education Division, 1600 
Rhode Island Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20036. 1-800-231-0752. 

Thank you for the opportunity to provide this information for the hearing record. 

Susan Lamson, 

Federal Affairs Division. 


1 Inserted as exhibit six on page 52. 


PLEASE NOTE: Tfaia information ia taken from the condensed 
regulations proTided to the National Rifle Association by the 
■tate and provincial wildlife agencies. A list of these agencies 
is enclosed. For more detailed and specific information please 
contact the appropriate agency. 

In some cases where handgun hunting is allowed by the wildlife 
agency, restrictiTe state laws or local ordinances complicate or 
prohibit their use. 


ALABAMA YES Permit required to carry but legal 

for hunting, subject to wildlife 
management area restrictions 

ALASKA YES Pistols using center-fire cartridges 

are legal for big game. Any handgun 
may be used for unclassified and 
smal 1 game . 

ARIZONA YES Big game, except buffalo, may be 

legally taken with centerfire 
handguns and handguns using black 
powder or Pyrodex. 

ARKANSAS YES Legal for deer. No minimum caliber, 

same restriction as for rifles and 
barrels must be 4 inches or 
larger. For small game, unlawful 
with pistol larger than .22 caliber 

CALIFORNIA YES Prohibited for upland game and 

waterfowl, permitted for rabbits and 
squirrels except in LA county; .357 
Magnum, .41 Magnum are legal only 
for bear and wild boar, with soft 
nose or expanding bullets. 

C30LORADO YES Permitted for rabbits, squirrel, 

turkey (fall season), predators and 
• 24 caliber or larger for defir, elk, 
ant e 1 ope . 

(XINNECUT I CUT YES No handgun larger than .22 cal for 

raccoon. Legal for all game species 
except deer . 

DELAWARE NO Not legal for game species but may 

be used for unprotected wildlife. 

FLORIDA YES Legal for game and nongame 

animals: rimfire cartridges 
prohibited for deer and bear. 

GEORGIA YES Legal for deer, bear and small game. 

.22 caliber rimfire only for 
rabbits, squirrel and raccoon. Not 
legal for turkey. Legal deer 
calibers are those which produce 500 
ft. lbs of energy at 100 yards. 

HAWAII YES Prohibited in public hunting areas. 

* State-by-state Information current through 1989 . 


IDAHO YES Legal for hunting game and nongame 

animals, forest grouse and wild 
turkeys . 

ILLINOIS* YES Prohibited for deer hunting but 

legal for small game and unprotected 

INDIANA YES For deer, handguns of 38 caliber or 

larger must have a barrel length of 
4 inches or longer. Handguns may be 
used for hunting small game or 
unprotected wildlife. A permit is 
required for transporting a handgun 
in a vehicle or on your person when 
off your property or place of 
bus i nes s . 

IOWA YES Permitted for hunting small game and 

predators or unprotected wildlife. 

KANSAS YES Not legal for deer bunting, but may 

be used for hunting small game and 
unprotected wildlife. 

KENTUCKY YES Permitted for hunting small game and 

predators. Certain handguns 
permitted for deer. See 
r egu 1 a t i ons . 

LOUISIANA YES Handguns may be used for hunting. 

MAINE YES Permitted for hunting big and small 

game, predators and unprotected 

MARYLAND YES Permitted for hunting small game and 

predators or unprotected wildlife. 
The .44 Magnum is legal for deer 
hunting only in counties that permit 
rifle hunting. Must generate 1200- 
foot-pounds of muzzle energy. 

MASSACHUSETTS YES Illegal for deer and turkey 

hunting. Larger than .38 caliber 
prohibited on all species at 
night. Otherwise, permissible to 
use on small game or unprotected 
species. Permit required for 
transporting handgun in a vehicle. 

MICHIGAN YES May be used for small game and 

deer. See hunting guide or contact 
DNR for special handgun rules in 
southern Michigan. 

MINNESOTA YES Legal for hunting. Special 

regulations applied depending on use 
for small or big game. 

MISSISSIPPI YES Legal for hunting big game, small 

game, predators, and unprotected 
speci es . 

*IHinois had a special handgun hunting season for deer in January, 1993. The 
same is planned for 1994. Firearms of .38-.A5 caliber, with a four inch minimun 
barrel length are required. 



YES Deer may be taken with a pistol or 
FPvolver using a centerfire 
cartridge which fires an expanding- 
type bullet weighing not less than 
125 grains and which develops not 
less than 350 foot-pounds of energy 
at 50 yards. All pistols legal for 
upland game animals but not for 
birds . 



YES Handgun hunting is permitted. 

YES Must deliver 400 foot pounds of 
bullet energy at 50 yards. 

YES Legal for big game with 4 inches or 
more barrel length. May be used in 
.357 magnum, .41 magnum, .44 magnum 
or .45 magnum, and centerfire 
cartridge 'A .11 caliber or larger 
with overall loaded length of 2 
i nche s or mor e . 


YES Handgun hunting is permitted 
wherever hunting with a rifle 
all owed . 





NO Not permitted for hunting game 

YES Center-fire handguns using 

anxaunition with a case length of 
1.98 inches or longer. .357 magum, 
9 nrn magnum and .30 carbine handguns 
are not legal. 

YES Centerfire handguns may be used for 
deer and bear where rifles are 
permitted and in some areas 
restricted to shotguns. Certain 
areas require handguns no less than 
.35 caliber and no less than four 
inch barrel length. 



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t i ng season 
handgun has a 
as t 5 1/2 inches 
than .357 


YES Handgun cartridge cases must be at 
least 1.285 inches in length and 
shoot a projectile at least .257 
inches in diameter. In addition, 
any handgun designed to fire a legal 
rifle cartridge shall be legal. 























Permitted for hunting small game, 
predators or unportected wildlife 
with some further firearms 
restrictions on wildlife management 
areas . 

Centerfire handguns chambered for a 
24 caliber or larger, 100 grain or 
heavier, softnosed bullet having an 
overall cartridge length of 1 1/4 
inches or longer. Minimum barrel 
length of 4 inches. 

Unlawful for some big game animals 
and game birds, but is permitted for 
hunting predators, unprotected 
wildlife, and deer. Must have a 
special permi t . 

Air pistols and automatic, semi- 
automatic or auto-loading pistols 
unlawful for wild birds or 
animals. Manually-operated 
revolvers legal for game. 

Handgun hunting is not technically 
illegal but is outlawed for 
practical purposes by restrictive 
handgun-carrying policy. 

Are permitted for hunting. 

For big game handgunners must use 
expanding bullets with energy of 
1,000 foot pounds. 

For small game (except migratory 
birds) handguns must use .22 
caliber, rimfire anxcunition. 
Handguns using centerfire anmunition 
prohibited for small game on 
wildlife management areas. Handguns 
using certer-fire anmunition are 
legal for hunting groundhogs and 
crows except during deer season. 
Those under 18 prohibited from 
hunting with handguns. 

No restriction, may be used during 
firearm season. Regulations for 
centerfire firearms apply. Must 
adhere to Migratory Bird 
regulations. Rimfire handgun may be 
used for turkey hunting. 

.357 Magnum or larger legal for big 
game . 

Permitted where rille hunting is 
a 1 1 owed . 

Pistols or revolvers .23 caliber or 
larger with 350 foot-pound muzzle 
energy may only be used for hunting 
non-migratory game birds and gazoe 
animals west of the Blue Ridge and 
east of the Blue Ridge where rifles 
are legal. Pistols or revolvers 
using .22 rimfire are permitted for 






small game where a .22 rifle is 
permitted. Pistols or revolvers may 
not be carried concealed without a 
permi t . 

YES Prohibited for elk, mountain sheep, 
mountain goat, and game birds except 
for spruce, ruffed, and blue grouse. 

YES Any .22 caliber handgun, rimfire or 
center-fire can be used legally for 
hunting small game if the barrel is 
at least four inches long. To 
legally carry a handgun, you need a 
Class A-1 license in addition to 
your regular hunting license. When 
hunting, the gun must be carried 
unconcealed in an easily visible 
pi ace . 

YES .22 rimfire handguns only may be 

used for the same hunting purposes 
as the .22 rimfire rifle. Deer may 
be hunted with handguns loaded with 
.357, .41, and .44 magnum caliber 
cartridges or any other caliber 
handgun chambered which produce a 
minimum muzz 1 e energy of 1,000 foot 
pounds. Hunters using handguns may 
not possess any other gun while 
hunt ing deer . 

YES Legal handgun calibers for trophy or 
big game are .41 Remington Magnum, 
.44 Remington Magnum, .44 Auto 
Magnum, .45 Winchester Magnum, and 
.454 Casul 1 . 













NO Not all owed . 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Prohibited. 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Prohibited. 

NO Prohibited. 

NO Not allowed. 

NO Prohibited for big game. 







Murder and mayhem, guns' 
and gangs: a teenage 
generation grows up 
dangerous — and scared 


\U Barbara Kantrowit/ 

chDiKC He was 55 years old. cnpplcd by 
multiple sclerosis and needed a walker or 
wheelchair to gel around llw boys who 
allegedly attacked him earlier this month 
were young- IT 15 and 14- and they 
were ruthless Police siiy thai when Con- 
rad returned to his suburban Allanla condominium 
while Ihev were burgling it. the boys did vs-hat they 
had to do They got rid of him Pennancntly 

Oxer a penod of many hours - stretching from 
diisk on lulv 17 until dawn of the ne.vl day -they 
slabbed hini w ilh a kitchen knile and a bart>ecue lork. 
sirangled hini with a rope, and hit him on the head 
with .1 hammer and the barrel of a shotgun, according 
111 a slateineni one ol the boys. 14-vcar-old Carlos 
Alc\.inder Nevare^ reportedly ga»c to |>olice M one 
|«iinl ihev realized they were hungry So they healed 
up the macaroni and cheese ihev lound in Conrad's 
kiK hen and washed it down with l>r l*cp|KT 

IVspilc this lorture. Oinrad >urMv«l .Vcording lo 
the sialemenl published bvThc .Atlanla lournal-Con- 
siitulion. a gnevously wounded Omrad begged the 
bovs to shoot him and put a sw ifl end In his ag<iny But. 
Neiare/ said, the boys were atraid petiple would hear 
the gunshots So they allegedly beal him some more 
and then poured salt into his wounds lo see il he was 
SI ill alive When his body twitched in response in ihe 
p;un ihev threw household knickkiiacksai him .\llcr 
hr was struck m the back by a brass caiile he slopped 
brealhing. " Nevarcz told police The Ixivs then look oil 
III < onnid s wheelchair-equipped van w ilh their hard- 
earned loot: a stereo, a VCR, a camcorder and a shot- 
gun according to an indictment handed down last 
week Kvcn bw-enforcement officials were shocked 
when ihev arrested the boys the neM day The DeKalb 
C'lunlv dislnct attorney. J Tom calls il "the 
worst crime scene I've ever seen" 


two teenage girls took a >,.' i: 
shortcut Into the woods, : ,': 
where they were vi- t^ • 
ciously raped and stran- 
gled. Police arrrested six ff' 
alleged members of the ^| E 

... . > 7 . 

III ; I 

'[;; ' 


charged with killing a 
17-year-old girl with 
a baseball bat. The 
alleged motive: she „ 
wouldn't date him. 

Black N White gang. 

Defendant Derrick O'Brien, 18 

Richard Baldwin, 17 

^IMMMs INHJ<ri>V O^l XPllVM iNl l> I roHl* III 

40 N.f«swftk A IK. I' \ I : l<tM\ 



A San Jbrtonto teen extorted by cane memben In broad daytigtat the city*s 1^^ 

Conrad's death wras parttcularly gory, 
but il was not an isolated inodent. Each day 
seems to bhng a new horror story of vicious 
crimes by boys — and a few girls Near Ft. 
LauderdaJe. Fla . on July 14. a group of 
teenagers allegedly beat and slabbed a 
friend to death, pohce have yet to come up 
with a motive A few days earlier m New 
York, a Brooklvti mother made the Iront 
pages for the saddest of distinctions losing 
all three of her young sons to streel vki- 
lencc Some victims, such as the menially 
retarded girl sexually assaulted bv high- 
school football players m Glen Ridgc. N 1 . 
get whole forests of publicity Bui most vr- 
tims are mourned only by the people who 
loved them In Februan. Margaret tns 

levs 17-year-old son Mtchaet caught a bul- 
let in the hallway of his high school in Rese- 
da. Calif She says a teen shot her son 
because he thought Michael gave him a 
funny look. The shooter, she says, is now 
serving 10 years in a youth-aulhonlv camp 
"But I have life imprisonment without the 
possibibty of parole.' savs Fnslev 'bec;iusc 
I won't ever have mv son back again 
When they were filling his cr\pi I '.aid 
'l^rd. let mc crawl up ihere with htm," be- 
cause the pain was so unbearable 

Law-enforcement and public-hcallh cilli- 
cials describe a virtual epidemic' of 
youth violence in the l.i-^i liveye.irs. spread- 
ing from the inner cities to the suburbs 
"We're talking about vounger and younger 

kids committing more and more serious 
cnnies." sayi Indianapolis Prosecuting At- 
torney Jeff Modisett "Violence is becoming 
a wav of life " Much of it. but by no means 
all. can be found in poor nei^borhoods. 
where a disproporttonale number of vic- 
tims arKJ victimizers live side by side Bui 
whai sep;irales one group from another is 
complex being neglected or abused by par- 
ents wtinescing violence al an early age on 
ihe slreel or in the house. Imng in a culture 
that glamonzes youth violence in decade*- 
of movies troni "A Clockwork Orange" lo 
'Menace II Sociclv". the coniinumg mys- 
tery of evil To th;ii 'ist add the most dan- 
gerous ingredicni the widespread avail- 
ability ol guns lo kids In a Har^'ard School 


- lAM AjfTQMio Exfrnns^cm 

of Pobtic Heahh fumy rdeued last week. 
59 percent of cfaildreD in the stzlii through 
the 12tfa gndes said they "ooukl get a hand- 
gun if they wanted one." More than a third 
of the students surveyed said they thought 
gons made it less likely that ihey would live 
to "a ripe old age" Ondy Rodriguez, a H- 
year^ld living in gang-riddled South-Cen- 
tral Los Angeles, is a testament to the feroc- 
ity of unrestrained hrepower. Two and a 
half years ago, a gang buJIet ripped through 
her body as she was talking to the fnailman 
outside her bouse. Now she's paralyzed for 
life. And the bullets keep coming. "We hear 
gunshots every day." she says. "Sometimes 
1 get scared. I'm in the shower and I hear it 
and I gel all scared But you have to live 
with the reality." 

Violence is devastating this geoermtioD. 
as surely as polio cut down young people 40 
years ago Attorney General ]ar>et Reno 
uyi youth violence is "the greatest single 
crime problem in America today." Between 
1987 and 1991. the last year for which statis- 
tics are available, the number of teenagers 
arrested for murder around the country it>- 
czeased by an astounding 65 peroent, ac- 
cording to the Departmem of Justice- In 
1991, 10- to IT-^carolds accounted for 17 
percent of all violent-crime arrests; law- 
enforcement o&cials believe that figure is 
even higher now. Teenagen are not just the 
perpetrators: they're abo the victims. Ac- 
cording to the FBI, more than 2.200 murder 
victims in 1991 were under 18— an average 
of more than six young people killed every 
day. The Justice Dqartment estimates that 
each year, nearly a millioQ young people 
L e tw et n 12 and 19 are raped, robbed or 
assaulted, often by their peers. 

U n «i enur »d »Ma«ci: TfaaTs the official 
count The true number of iri}uries from 
teen violence could be eren higher When 
emetgency medical twrhnirians io Boston 
recently addressed a class of fifth gnderv 
they were aslnnishwl to find that nearly 
three quarten of the children knew some- 
ooe who had been shot or stabbed. "A lot of 
violence goes immeasured." says Eh-. Deb- 
orah Prothrow-Stith. assistant dean of the 
Harvard Sdiool of Public Health and au- 
thor of "Deadly Consequences," a book 
about teen violence. Paramedic Richard 
Serine, who is a supervisor in the emer^ 
gency room at Boston Oty Hospital, esti- 
mates that doctors save seven or eight 
wouTKled teens for every ooe who dies. 
Many of the lucky ones," Setino says, 
end up paralyzed or with colostomy bap. 

The statistics are shocking— 
and so is the way some teen- 
agers i^act when the/re caught 
and accused of brutal crimes. 
"Hey, great! We've hit the big 
time." 17-year-old defendant 
Raul Omar Villareal allegedly 
boasted to another boy after 
hearing that they might be 
charged with murder Villa- 
real was OIK of six Houston 
teens arrested and charged last 
month in the brutal rape aiKl 
strangulation of two young girls 
who made the btal mistake of 
taking a shortcut thxou^ a 
wooded aren where, police 
say, the boys were initiating 
two new members into their 
gang In Dartmouth. Mass.. 
this April, two l&Tcar-olds and 
one 15-year^d armed with 
clubs and knives barged into a 
high-school sodaJ-stxKiies cjass 
and. police say, fatally stabbed a 
16-year-«ld. One of the accused 

Idllen reportedly claimed that cult leader 
David Koresh was his idol and l^'ig***^ 
about the killing afterward. 

Dartmouth is a suburb of New Bedford, 
the sort of place dty dwellers Oee to, think- 
ing theyll find a respite firm dty dime. 
While the odds may be a bit better, a picket 
feixx and a driveway is no guarantee. In- 
deed, even suburban police (iepartments 
around the nation have taken to keq>ing 
watch on groups they worry tnay develop 
into youth gangs. Thus hi. most of these 
kids seem Uce extras from "West Side Sto- 
ry." bunches of boys content to de&ce wills 
and fight with dubs and rhiins 

The casual attitude toward violence is 
most acute in inner-dty neigbbcchoods, 
where many youngsters have grown up to 
the sounds of sirens and gunshots in the 
night aixi the sight of blood-spattered side- 
walks in the morning. After so many years 
in a wax zone, trauma begins to seem nor- 
maL This is how Shaakara. a sw ee t la ced 
&7ear-old who lives in Uptown, ooe of Chi- 
cago's most dangerous areas, calmly de- 
scribes one terrible scene she witnessed 
at a odgbhor's apartment This Udy. 
she got shot and her Uttle baby had (ot 
cuL This man. he took the baby and cat her 
He cut her on the throat He kUled the 
baby. All blood came out This Utile boy, 
when he saw the baby, he called his grand- 
mother and she came over. And you know, 
his grandmother got killed, but the little 
hoy didn't get killed. He comes o>er to 
my bouse. That man. he took the grand- 
mother azKl put her on the ground, and 
slammed her, and shut her in the tloor. 
Her whole body, shut in the dooc' Af- 
ter telling her tale, Shaakan nailes. 
"You know what I want to be when 


_ Juveniles accounted for 1756 of all violent-crime 

arrests in 1S91, 

_ Juvenile arrests for murder increased by £55; 

between 1987 and 1991. 

_ Three of every 10 juvenile murder arrests 

involved a victim under the age of 18 in 1S91. 

scjpcts of jinXMit jusiia sko DEUkCuikCt Mfttmon 



I grow up? A ballerina or a mermaid." 
In this heightened atmosphere of vio- 
lence, normal rules of behavior don't ap- 
ply. As traditional social supports— home, 
school, community— have fallen away, new 
role models have taken their place. "It takes 
an entire village to raise a child, but the 
village isn't there for the children any- 
more." says Modisett. the Indianapolis 
prosecutor. "The only direction these kids 
receive is from their peers on the street, the 
local drug dealers and other role models 

who engage in criminal conduct.' Katie 
Buckland, a Los Angeles prosecutor who 
volunteers in the city's schools, says the 
kids she sees have already given up the idea 
of conventional success and seize the op- 
portunities available. "The kids that are 
selling crack when they're in the fifth grade 
are not the dumb kids." she s^. They're 
the smart kids. They're the ambitious kids 
. . . trying to clirab up their own corporate 
ladder. And the only corporate ladder they 
see has to do with gangs and drugs.' 

With drugs the route to easy money, pris- 
on is the dominant institution shaping the 
culture, replacing church and sdx»L In the 
last tew years, more young black men have 
gone to^ than to college. Fathers, uncles, 
brothers, cousins have all done time. April 
Allen, a IS-year-old who lives in Boston's 
Roxbury section, has friends who think of 
Jail as a kind of sleep-away camp. "The boys 
I know think it's fun to be in jail because 
other boys they know are in jaii, too," she 
«^v Prison is a way of looking: the 

Girls Will Be Girls 

It's not just boys, in san 
Antonio. Texas, recently, 
a IS-yearold girl allegedly 
beat and then held down anoth- 
er girl while police say several 
boys sexually assaulted her. 
In New Orleans, a 16-yeai^ 
old schoolgirl pulled out a 
six-inch kitchen knife and 
plunged it into a classmate's 
back. On the streets of Los 
Angeles and New York, 
some girls carry small guns 
in their purses and razor 
blades in their mouths, in 
case they need to protect 
themselves- or find a vic- 
tim ripe for the taking. 

The plague of teen vio- 
lence is an equal-opportuni- 
ty scourge Crime by giris 
is on the rise, or so vari- 
ous jurisdictions report In 
Massachusetts, for instance. 
15 percent of the crimes 
that girls were convicted 
of committing in 1987 were 
violent offenses. By 1991. 
that number had soai^ to 38 
percent. In California, judges 
send the "hard core" girls to 
the Youth Authority's Ventura 
School. "You name the crime, 
we have it. you think about the 
worst scenarios and we have 
them here," says Edward Cue, a 
school official. 

For some girls, the best de- 
fense is a good offense. "I've 
had fights with a lot of guys." 
says Laura Morales, a South 
Ejid. Boston, youth. Years ago. 
she concedes, a girl might have 
called a brother or a cousin to 
fight her battles. Today, says 
Morales, "if I have to take care 
of something I'll do it by my- 
self." A third-grade New Or- 

leans girl recently took a .357 
magnum to school to protect 
herself from a boy who was al- 
legedly harassing bee After po- 
lice confiscated the gun, she 
claimed that her comidaints to 

shootings. Girls join gangs fbr 
a variety of reasons: protec- 
tion, fun, because they like a 
particular boy or for accept- 
ance. The gangs also provide a 
makeshift family. Some teens 
will do anything to join. In one 
initiation rite in Ssui Antonio, 
girls are kicked and beaten fay 

Some girls now carry guns. Others hide 
razor blades in their mouths. 

the school officials had gone 

Girls are breaking into the 
traditionally male world of 
gangs, too. The Kings, one of 
San Antonio's largest gangs, re- 
cently started accepting young 
women. Where male gang 
members used to refer to the 
girls as "hos and bitches," says 
Sgt. Kyle Coleman of the Bexar 
County Sheriff's Department 
Gang Unit, they're a little more 
reluctant now as those female 
gang members start to equal 
them in fights and drive-by 

the brutality of the 
of girls by other giils," nys 
Dr. Naftali Berrill. director of 
the New York Fnensic Mental 
Health Group. The violeoce b a 
vicious, antisocial padt mental- 
ity aimed at a target who b 
incapable of fighting back. 
tays BenilL The pack ameUs 
weakness, and the situation 
turns into a free for all 
where no individual person 
feels responsible. 

Sodal agencies haven't 
learned much about curb- 
ing violence among young 
womeiL The police and 
social workers know only 
how to worry about whether 
the girls are pregnant, 
says Franklin Thicker, direc- 
tor of the Barron Assess- 
ment Counseling Center, 
where students fixsn Boston 
sdKX)ls are sent if they 
are caught with a weapon 
on sdiool grounds. These 
young giris are very angry 
and very hostile." he says. 
iiMtm«-iMr*cTvisu»u They have their reasons - 
some good, some not. Sheri 
Pasanen, a San Diego social 
worker, was cau^t short re- 
cently when she was showing 
the movie Thelma and Louise" 
to a group of jailed young 
and older women. "When they 
shot the [attempted rapist], the 
whole class cheered." she says. 
The problem, says Pasanen. is 
that their reactio.n was reason- 
able. "Every single one of them 
in there has probably been 
abused." But if violence is a 
learned behavior, it can also be 
unlearned. And these iiunates 
now have some time to work or 
that lesson. 

half a dozen gang members. 
In Boston, the two biggest fe- 
male ^ngs are every bit as 
ruthless as the boys'. "They're 
shooting, slabbing, and they're 
into drug sales and stickups." 
says Tracy Litthcut. manager 
for the Boston Streetworkers 
violence-intervention program. 
In New York City, not only are 
packs of boys "whiripooling." 
or surrounding girls in public 
swimming pools and molesting 
them, but groups of girls are at- 
tacking other female s^vimmers 
as well. "I've been amazed at 

Connie Leslie wilfi Nina Biddle 

inHouston. Depha Rosensekc 

infioslanoiid Joe Watne tnSanDiegt 


catr. Mf LLt- 

Ml Hil.HNtl Ui;i^T>K 

CiOdrM gi^iw up seeing blood in the streets, istening to alarms in the ni^rt. Thb Ittte boy bimp^ 

dropped-waist. baggy-pants look is even 
called "jailing" in Miami And prison is a 
M-av of acting "In pnson the baddesJ. 
meanest guy runs the cell." says H T 
Smith, a lawyer and Afncan-.\mer>can ac- 
tT\nst who practices in Miami's 
OvrrlowTi ghetto "Your neigh- 
b<i:lti)od. your school — it's the 
same You've got to show him 
you're crazy enough so he wont 
mess with you." 

If prison pro\ndes the meth- 
od of social interaction, guns 
proude the means Alexis \'e- 
ga, a 19-year-old New Yorker. 
e.Kpiains the mentality on the 
streets where she grew up If a 
niiin threatens me. that's a 
thr. ,1 lo my life So I go gel a 
guii and make sure 1 shoot him 
first before he shoots me F.»en 
"•ough he might not mean it 
Just by saying it. it may scare me 
so much that I'm going lo get 
nim first." Vega has seen run- 
of-the-mill arguments turn into 
tragedies "A buUet doesn't 
""^■e anybody's name on it." 
Mys \ega "Somebody shoots, 
"cy re so nen'ous. they'll catch 
you even though you don't have 
anything to do «nth it." 

One kid with a gun is a finite 

danger, a gang equipped with Uzis. AK-47s 
and sawed-off shotguns means carnage. 
Unlike adult criminals, who usually act 
alone nolent teens normally move in a 
pack That's typical teen behavior hanging 



~ Between 1987 and 1991, juvenile arrests for 
weapons violations increased 6296. 

r: One out of 5 weapons arrests in 1991 was a 

Juvenile arrest. ° 

n Black youths were arrested for weapons-lawvio- 

lations at a rate triple that of white youths in 1991; 

they were victims of homic?des at a rate six times 


louBos omci OF juvDiiuj'Jsnct «m DawiouwM pupwnoN. 

ttltrTOM K>NIJ^T-<.AMM» ll*is.'v 

together. But these an- well-cquippcd ar- 
mies, not just a feu kids milling outside a 
piz^a parlor There's ■< s^nergisllc effect 
one particularly aggirssive kid can spur 
others to commit cnnies they might not 
think of on their own llie victims are often 
chosen because they arc perceived as weak 
or \-ulnerable. say social scientists who 
study children and aggression As homble 
as some of the cnmcs are. kids go along 
with the crowd rather than go it alone. 

A dangertius breed: Some social saentisl> 
argue that teenage aggicssion is natural In 
another era. ihey say thai aggression might 
have been channeled in a socially acceptable 
wav-inio the militan or hard phvsical lii 
bor -options that are slill available to puta 
tive linebackers and soldiers Bui other r<- 
searcher^; who have studied liiday s MolenI 
teens say they arc a nc" and darigero*!-. 
breed At a conferem eon teen vKilerne pre- 
vention in Washington. DC last week, psy- 
chologists and social workers discussed the 
causes of skyrocketing leen-cnmc rales In 
one of the largest longitudinal studies ol v-io- 
lent vouth. scientists follcmcd about 4.tXXl 
voungsters in Denver Pittsburgh and Roch- 
ester. NY. for five years Bv the age of 16. 
more than half admitted to some form of 
violent cnminal behavior says Terence 
P Thomberry. iho principal investigator 
in Rochester and a psychologist at the 
State University of New York in Albany "Vi- 


olence among teenagers is al- 
most normative in our society," 
Thomberry told the conference. 
But not all violent teens were 
the same: the researchers found 
thai 15 percent of the sample 
were responsible for 75 percent 
of the violent offenses. 

'Risk factors': What made the 
bad kids so bad? Thomberry 
and his colleagues identified a 
number of "risk factors" in the 
youths' background. "Violence 
docs not drop out of the sky at 
age 15." Thomberry says. "It is 
part of a long developmental 
process that begins in early 
childhood." Kids who grow up 
in tai/nilies wrhere there is child 
abuse and maltreatment, spouse 
abuse and a history of violent be- 
havior learn eai'ly on to act out 
physically when they are frus- 
trated or upset. Poverty exacer- 
bates the situation. Parents who haven't fin- 
ished high school, who are unemployed or 
on welfare, or who began their bmilies 
while they themselves were teenagers are 
more likely to have delinquent children. In 
New York and other big cities, counselors 
who work with delinquent youths say they 
see families with a history of generations of 
violence. Angeb D'Arpa-Calandra. a for- 
mer probation officer who now directs the 
Juvenile Intensive Supervision Program, 
says she recently had such a case in Man^ 
hattan family court. When she walked into 
the courtroom, she saw a mother and a 
grandmother sitting with the 14-yeai^ld of- 
fender "I had the grandmother in criminal 
court in 1963." D'Arpa-Calandra says. "We 
didn't slop it there. The grandmother was H 
when she vms arrested. The mother had this 
child when she was 14. It's like a cycle we 
must relive." 

Problenu in school also increase the like- 
lihood that the youngster will turn to vio- 
lence, the stud)' found. People who work 
with young criminals report that many are 
barely literate. Learning disabilities are 
common among teens in the probation sys- 
tem, says Chamlel Polite, a Brooklyn pro- 

"You doa^lafM to b* In a gang to be siwt . 



bation officer who supervises 30 youthfiil 
ofreoders. "I have 15- or 16-yearolds in 
ninth or 10th grade whose reading levels 
are second or third grade." 

Thomberry says the most effective pre- 
vention efforts concentrate on elitiunating 
risk fadon. For example, students with 
learning problems could get extra tutoring. 
Parents who have trouble maintaining dis- 
cipline at home could gel counseling or 
thierapy. "Prevention programs need to 
start very early." Thomberry says, maybe 
even before elementary school. "Waiting 
until the teenage years is too late." 

Alter a while, life on the streets begins to 
feel like home to older teenagers. Joaquin 
Ramos, a 19-year-old member of the Latin 
Counts in Detroit, says he spends his time 
"chillin' and hanging" with the Counts 
when he's not in jail. He's spent two years 
behind bars, but that hasn't made him tum 
away frt>in the gang. The oldest of seven 
children, he never met his father, but he has 
been told that he wras a member of the Bagly 
Boys, a popular gang a gei>eration ago. Ra- 
mos be^ carrying a gun when he was 9; he 
became a full-fledged Count at the age of 
13. He has watched three good frieitds— 

Bootis. Shadow aixl Show- 
time—die in street wars. 

Bootis was shot when he left 
a party. "1 looked right into his 
eyes and it looked like he was 
trying to say something." Ra- 
mos recalls. "There was snow 
on the gnxmd and the blood 
from the back of his bead was 
spreading all over it. Another 
buddy tried to lift his bead but 
the l»ck of it was gone. He had 
a small hole ri^t in the middle 
of his forehead. And then he 
was gone. He died. That was 
my buddy. We were real tight." 
He adds. "Would you say in the 
story that we bve him and miss 
him and Shadow and Show- 
time, too?" 

Some kids do manage to 
leave gang life, usually with the 
help of a supportive adult. Wil- 
liam Jefferson, now 19. quit the 
Intervale gang in Boston's Roxbuty section 
after be was shot. "My mom talked to me 
and told me I had to make a dedsioD wheth- 
er I wanted to do something with my life 
or stay on the street and possibly gel 
killed." He started playing basketball and 
football at school: then he had to keep up 
his grades to stay on the teams. Last month 
he became the first of his mother's four 
children to graduate from high school. He 
plans to enter junior college this fall. 
Now. he says, he'll behave because "I have 
a lot to lose." 

Two lives, two different dioices. At the 
risk of sounding melodramatic. Joaquin Ra- 
mos and William Jefferson represent differ- 
ent paths for a generation at risk. The young 
men noade their own decisions, but clearly 
they were influenced by those dear to them: 
for Ramos it was the gang, for Jefferson, his 
mother. Day by day. block by block, these 
are the small jtxlgmenls that wrill end up 
governing our streets. Tbere is little reason 
to be very optimistic. 

Wilk DcaSA RoscNiciic imBettc^ 

Lucille Bcacmv niNcwyoi*. Pitm annik 

imHamtlom. Shawn D LcwiimDtfnM. 

jCANNCCOMDON tit Lm ^mpln. PcTEIl Katcl 

aaMiMn«WMCLiNDA Liu m HhsUiiflM 


Gobby Kent, the 20-year- 
6!d son qjf a stockbroker, 

arrested six youths. One 
of thi^nt was his ex- 
girlfriend, another a 
former pal. 

Donald Danny Martin Joseph 
Semenick,18 PuccioJr.,2a 

Usa Marie 
Connelly, 18 

Derek lean Derek George 

Kaufman, 20 Dnirko,19 

nioroinrT LAVorjicuLESUN-sFjmNCL 




the young are packing weapons in a deadly battle against fear and boredom 

»yiONaWUa OMAHA , 

DOUG wasn't even that nervous when he finally got his gun. just awfully sblf- 
conscious and kind of giddy, like when he first started making out with girls. A class- 
mate at Father Flanagan High School gave him the beeper number of a dealer in town. 
An older guy, maybe in his early 30s, answered the page. "Meet me in the parking lot 
behind the McDonald's at 30th and Ames. Tuesd^qr night, say around 8." 

Doug* took his older brother's Ford pickup truck, which has a nice deep rumble and 
gives Doug's budding tough-guy image some douL With a blue baseball cap tipped low oiver 

histyebrovs, the slightly buflt sophomore 
wtUei in the parking lot, smoUng Kools 
one after snotber and staring awlcwanlly 
at other male customers as they stepped 
out of their cars. Finally, one man nodded 
slightly in reply and waved Doug over to 
his car. Doog walked slowly, attempting a 
saunter. T^te man popped his trunk open, 
and Doug peered inside at a shiny pile of 
handguns and rifles. Silently, he counted 
the money in his pocket, suddenly wishing 
to hell he'd brought more. He stared at the 
weapons. TTicy said: Power. Authority: Re- 
spect. All at entry-level prices. 

With only $25 in his wallet-earnings 
from mowing a few lawns— he quickly set- 
tled on a used Remington semiautomatic 
12-gauge shotgun. He was pleasantly sur- 
prised by its heft as he slid it into a canvas 
bag and scurried back to his truck. At 16, 
Doug was finally a force to be reckoned 
with at Father Flanagan High, in his 
while, working-class neighlKtrhood of 
Benson and on the streets of Omaha. "If 
you have a gun, you have power. That's 
just the way it is." he says. "Guns are just 
a pari of growing up these days." Doug felt 
older already. With the radio blaring 
heavy metal, he smiled all the way home. 

That evening, while his parents 
watched television. Doug sneaked into the 
garage and got his Dad's hacksaw. Care- 
fully selecting a spot along the barrel, he 
liegan to cut. He was amazed at how easily 
the blade sliced through the metal. 
Smoothing the end with a metal file, he 
then cut the slock, reducing the gun by 
almost 2 ft. in length and transforming it 

•Where only fire! names are used. Ihey ire 

CUM CU>T;Abuyti»cfco«erbreu8ht In 1,124 w'aapom.aotiw from »l »«i*» i . 

into the weapon of chokx among many 
teenage toughs; a pistol-grip, sawed-off 
shotgun, which he pronounces almost as 
one word. "Easy to hide and no need to 
aim. Just bamf and you clear the room," he 
says. Reluming the gun to the canvas teg. 
he hurried teck to his room, paused brief- 
ly to consider a hiding place, and then slid 
the weapon under his mattress before 
joining his parents for dinner. 

Getting the gun was the easy part. Fir- 
ing it for the first time was terrifying. 
"Hell, it was pretty t)eat up. and I didn't 
know if it would jam or something." says 
Doug. "I mean, how was 1 supposed to 

know whether the damn thing would just 
blow up in my face because it was busted 
and maybe that's why the guy sold it to me 
in the first place?" 

Doug and his friend Scott. 15. detated 
this problem for several days, turning the 
shotgun over and over in their hands, 
carefully inspecting and cleaning every 
part. They bought a box of shells from a 
friend and practiced loading and unload- 
ing the gun. Fmally one Saturday, they 
drove out of town and headed for the coun • 
tryside. "We didn't know quite what we 
were going to do until we found this tree 
near a cornfield that was split right down 


iIk' middle iiilci a V." sa^-s Doug. He loaded 
line shell and carefully worked (he gun 
inld the crotch of the tree until it fit light- 
Iv Then, while both hoys crouched behind 
the sMii-s of the tree. Doug reached around 
111 the gun. fHI for the trigger, closed his 
i-yi-s and squeezed. "I just love that 
simnd. "hesays. _^ 

In four iTiOnlhs. Doug figures, he's 
done nine drive-by shootings, aiming 
mostly at cars and houses. "It's basically 
revenge, that sort bf thing. " he says. Like 
when he shot five times at a truck that be- 
longed to the boyfiiend of a judge's daugh- 
ler-a roundabout response to the judge's 
conviction of several ofhis friends for vari- 
ous offenses. "I'm not actually aiming at 
anybody." he says. "But once my older 
brother missed a baby's head by a quarter 
of an inch. It was in all the news." 

The roar of Doug's shotgun is the 
sound of a growing national tragedy. 
.America's easy availability of guns and the 
restlessness of its youth have finally col- 
lided with horrific results. GuDshots now 
cause I ofevery 4 deaths among American 
teenagers, accoitling to the National On- 
ler for Health Statistics. Bullets killed 
nearly 4.200 teenagers in 1990. the most 
recent year for which figures are avail- 
able, up from 2.500 in 1983. An estimated 
1 00.000 students carry a gun to school, ac- 
cording to the National Education Associa- 
tion In a survey released last week, poll- 
ster U>uis Harris found alarming evidence 
of a gun culture among the 2.308 students 
he polled in 96 schools across the U.S. Fif- 
teen percent of students in the sixth 
through 12th grades said they have car- 
ried a handgun in the past 30 days. 1 1% 
said they have been shot at. and 39% said 
they know where to get a gun if they need 

But even the worst schools are safer 
than the streets, which is why summer is 
the deadliest season. For many teenagers, 
with their undeveloped sense of mortaliry 
and craving for thrills, gunplay has be- 
come a deadly sport "You hre a gun and 
vou can just hear the power. " says Doug 
It's like jwA.'" 

Not long ago. many Americans dis- 
missed the slaughter as an inner<ily 
problem. But now the crackle of gunfire 
echoes from the poor, urban neighbor- 
hoods to the suburbs of the heariland 
Omaha, with a population of 340.000. is 
just an average Midwestern city, which is 
why the slorj' of its armed youth shows 
how treacherous the problem has become 
The Omaha neighborhood of Benson, a 
tidy grid of suburban-style homes on the 
northwest side, has been taken by sur- 
prise. Three dozen shaken parents and 
troubled teenagers gathered on a rainy 
Tuesday nigh! in May at the Benson Com- 
munity Center, bracing for summer's on- 
slaught and groping for solid ground in a 
world where cruising can include drive-by 

• • . - , ■ 

'Mf pu have a gun, you have power/' %s Dpug> 

shootings and where a semiautomatic 
handgun can be the most exciting thing in 
a boy's life, the 1990s equivalent of a shiny 
new bicycle. "My son was shot last sum- 
mer." announces Chris Messick. a mother 
of three. "They almost shot his head off" 

ther of two. rises slowly to 
speak but the tears flow before 
the words. He stammers. 
"What in God's name are you 
kids doing with your lives? " In 
th ~ comer, seven young men sink lower 
and lower in their chairs, their faces dis- 
appearing beneath an assoriment of base- 
ball caps. Spencer is too upset to say any 
more. Joseph Henry, a father of six. stands 
up "I've tieen to four funerals in North 
Omaha, all kids, " he says ""Can"t young 
people get together without slaughtering 
each other'' " 

The question preoccupies assistant po- 
lice chief Larry Roberts, who has been on 
the Omaha force for 20 years He says the 
big surge in youth violence started in 

1986. when gang meqibers from Los Ange- 
les moved eastward to colooi<:e smaller 
cities. Now teenagers ihrougbojt the ai-ea 
try to match the firepower o( the gang 
members. "If one kid brings a little .22-caI. 
pistol and the other has a .337 Magnum, 
then guess who has status. " Roberts says. 
The gunplay spread quickly beyond the 
gangs "For some reason this particular 
generation of kids has absolutely no value 
for humaq life," he says "They don't 
know what it is to die or what it means to 
pull the trigger." 

Yet many have seen by firsr-hand expe- 
rience. Jennifer Rea, 15, allegedly shot to 
death her rwo younger sisters one after- 
noon last March with a .22-cal. pistol Carlos 
Fisher, 16. put a .38-cal. pistol to his head in 
May while playing with some friends at his 
house and pulled the trigger, killing him- 
self Police believe he either was playing 
Russian roulette or assumed the gun was 
unloaded Travis Hogue. 18. is accused of 
shooting and killing Nikki Chambers. 19, a 
male rival, in the rest room of a McDonald s 
in April with four shots from a .38. 


'Omaha police question.-. - 
suspected gang members. 

"Guns are just a part of growing up these days." 

Miyor PJ. Morgan and otber comma- 
nity leaders take offense at any suggestion 
that Omaha is dangerous. Compared with 
most American cities, it is not So far tliis 
year, 16 residents— about tialf of them ju- 
veniles— have been murdered, wliicb is 
Just a Ind wedund in Los Angeles. But if 
the battle against youth violence can't be 
won m Omaha, which has an unemploy- 
ment rate of only 3.3%, the rest of the na- 
tion is in for trouble. So far that battle is 
being lost On any Saturday night, Oma- 
ha's police radio betrays the city's image 
as a bastion of conservative heartland val- 
ues: "Caller reports two youths with guns 
in a parking lot . . . Anonymous caller re- 
ports shots in her neighborhood . . . Drive- 
by shooting reported . . Officer reports at 
least 10 shots . . . One young mal» wound- 
ed by gunfire." 

In Doug's ramblings with his sawed-ofT, 
he has peppered his neighborhood with 
shotgun pellets. He can't explain why he 
shot the dog. "What does it matter?" he 
asks with a shrug. Late one evening last 

Mardi, be and a few friends crept up to a 
bouse and look several potshots. "I saw 
this dog sitting on a couch in tliis big win- 
dow above tlie front porch, so I Just shot 
him." Doug's expression is devoid of re- 
morse or bravado as he drives by the 
brown, two-story house, recounting the in- 
cident one afternoon. A teenage girl with 
long brown liair sits on the poroh reading. 
The outer walls of the house are still 
pocked with pellet holes. "I'm not sure 
what kind of dog it was, but he fell out the 
window and onto the porch," says Doug. "I 
could hear him yelping as we ran away." 

Doug isn't really sure how he and his 
friends graduated from Wiflle l)all— once 
their favorite game— to guns. "My older 
brother was into guns, so I've been around 
this stuff since I was aboul 13," he says. 
Both his parents work, and his father is a 
recovering alcoholic. Doug says that be- 
fore his dad slopped drinking three years 
ago, "it was always really violent around 
my house." 

Sometimes (he guns are for protection, 
a youngster's seemingly prudent response 

to (he (maU-arms race among his peers. 
But often, guns and gunfights are just a 
defense against the hiezplicable despair 
that torments so many American teen- 
agers. While (he basic destructive im- 
pulses of rebellious young men remain un- 
changed, the methods of rebellion are now 
(ar more dangerous. Tod^s miscreants 
know (ha( a pistol t^s much more (ban 
king hair or a pierced nose ever could. Not 
Just kMider. bu( forever. With a S25 invest- 
ment, all the teasing from classmates 
(tops cdd. Suddenly, the shortest, ugliest 
and weakest Ud becomes a player. 

for any sdf-respecting teenager 
with a Utile sense, but dealing 
with guys who do have guns is an 
excruciating business. Steve. 14, 
stopped walking home alone from 
•cfaool last year when many of his fellow 
Kvenlh-graders at Hale Junior High start- 
ed talking up guns. "Some guys Just start- 
ed to change. It became cool to lay you 
oooM get a gun," be says. Tiobody messes 
with you if they even think you may have a 
gun." Polite, dean-cut and stlU displajing 
the cwkwirdness of adolescence, ^eve 
sa(y8 he lives bi almost constant apprefaen- 
skHL "Oh boy, summer is reidly the 
worst," be si^ "You always have to deal 
vrilh Iraablemakers who will push you 
around for no reason, but now it's rally 
scary. I know I kwk like a fool if I gel in an 
aigument and walk away, but these days 
it's too dangerous to fight." 

Some days, guns are Just a defense 
against boredom that comes from a lack of 
guidance and direction. Asked to name a 
single bobby, Doug, who is remarkably 
guileless for a gunsUnger, is stumped. He 
concedes the craziness of him and his 
classmates shooting at one another, but 
wonders bow it could be any different. 
"Parents just don't understand that every- 
thing has changed," he says. "You can't 
just slug it out in the schoolyard anymore 
and be done vrilh it. Whoever loses can 
just get a gun." 

Doug looks for affirmation of his own 
violent impulses in such movies as South- 
Central and Boyz 'N the Hood. He misses 
their point, embracing the life-style lhc^■ 
portray rather than heeding any caution- 
ary tale they offer. His favorite book is Do 
or Die, an account of the lives of gang 
members in Los Angeles. "If there were 
more books like that, I'd read a lot more." 
he says, without a hint of sarcasm. 

Doug floors his Ford truck through a 
yellow light, turns sharply and then slows, 
carefully checking out the other cars as he 
cruises the largely white working-class 
neighborhoods of Benson. He points to a 
light blue, wood-frame house. Dozens of 
pellet holes from two shotgun blasts scar 
the wall on either side of the front door. In 
the driveway, an elderly man tinkers \nih 
a blue Che\7 Caprice, which is also riddled 


"People think we are just punks and farmers in Omatia, but they're wrong," 

with boles. Doug drives by skwty. conli- 
denl he won't be recognized. "We did that 
three months ago. Monday night about 2 
am. me and six other guys just fired from 
the street." He shakes his head. "That old 
man's son has a problem with stealing 
cars." Doug puts an !ce-T disc on his car 
CD player and cranks up the volume. 
There's a lot of rappers that make a lot of 
sense." he saj'S. His friend Scott nods rev- 
erently. But neither Doug nor Scott can ex- 
plain what the songs mean to them. While 
the lyrics may address inner<ity issues, 
(he tone resonates among white teenagers 
like them simply because it's the angriest 
siuffon the market , 

"Now. let's say we were going to shoot 
that house," sa>'S Doug, pointing down the 
street. ""Just about now I'd cut the lights 
and slow down Then bang. bang. bang, and 
I d punch it out of there" The truck lurches 
lorvt'ard Doug turns the stereo louder 

Most Omaha residents used to dismiss 
rcenage gunplay as a problem confined to 
ihe north side of Omaha, which is largely 

black and poor That comfortable notion 
was shatteiwl last August by a seven-min- 
ute fire fight among mostly white teen- 
agers in Benson. "I've lived in this area all 
my life, and now boys are shooting at each 
other for the hell of it." says Bonnie Bse- 
man. a single mother in Ihe neighborhood 
"I now realize that I owe Ihe blacks in Oma- 
ha an apology for ignonng all the shootings 
because I thought it was just their problem. 
I couki just weep for these kids " 

Especially for her son Jeff, an only 
child. He was one of Ihe shooters last sum- 
mer during the gun battle at 61si and Spra- 
gue. pari of a tree-lined neighborhood of 
neatly kept, working-class houses. "We 
were just planning on a big light, like a 
nimble, when six cars came cruising down 
the street and the shooting started." sa)'s 
JefT. 20. whose quick and warm smile de- 
feats even his best efforts at posturing He 
ran inside a house, grabbed his 32-cal pus- 
tol and returned hre Another friend re- 
trieved a mini MAC-IO. a semiautomatic he 
had hidden in the bushes, while a third 
pulled out a 22-cal rifle. That mini MAC 

saved u.s. " says JefT. who blindly blazed 
away at the cars, which circled the Mod 
three limes. Seven minutes bier, ma 
youths lay wounded, one seriously. Neig^ 
bonng houses were riddled witk buUets 
one car had 1 4 puncture holes. "It's weird 
nobody died." JefT says. He pauses, running 
his hands over his rieally shaved head. 1 
never really did learn to shoot too well." 

Not for lack of trying. JefTs life came 
apart in adolescence. "I don't kisw what 
happened. " says Bonnie. "He was such a 
beautiful chikl. He still is my beautifU 
child But he got so angry" After he was 
kicked out of Monroe Junior Higk for mt*- 
conduct. Bonnie sent him to Boj-s TknMi 
for three years. But JefT grew mare rebel- 
lious He got his first gun. a 2^hal. sem(- 
automatic, in his mid-teens. A year later, 
he dodged his first bullet: afier a istfighl, 
his opponent relumed with a rille and 
opened hre_ That same year, he did his 
hrsi drive-M" "We shot at a house, just to 
let them know that Ihe games were over." 
he savs Although he doesn't believe he 
ever hit anyone, he confesses Ibal "one 


says Tony. "A lot happens here. It's just a smaller scale than L.A." 

time we almost hi) a rour-year-old 0rl bv 
mistake " 

Two years ago. Jeff paid toil Id a friend 
for the slolen 32<zl pistol he usi-d in last 
summers shoo(-ou( After the gunh0il. 
he (ossed it in a lake and liuughi a 12- 
gauge, sawed-off shotgun "Vou feel invin- 
cible with a weapon." he sa\^ In April he 
was arrested for possession of a AlO- 
gauge shotgun, and now face> felony 

himself a violent gu\. mitutth- 
standing several broken nosi-v j 
dnn I have a quK k lem|HT, hul il 
1 ni mad. Im mad Itir tlmi- 
wtvk*;.' he says, whii h is a Um^ 
lime in the I ilf of an armed vouih Ilrgi4«l- 
uated from Itensim High SchiKil l.isi \ 
and wnrkv digginj: leiue Imle^ while 
a\\ailinp Im living u> •.i.i\ hw,i\ 
hum gun^ ii"u Inil it -^ hk<M*vrr \InhU h.i- 
Iheni l.u\- mil Ix- hkf I \e goi .i 't-nuii 
and you M- unlx pm ;i |M'asti<Niit'i Or 
iheVII ltr;iL' iluil m\ hrolliei Iki^ a M V 

10 ' As crazy as it's getting. I think it 
should be illegal to have a gun." he says 

Bonnie didn't realize that her son was 
involved wi«h guns until (ast summer In 
June, after Jeff and some friends were 
shot at in a drive-b\. they jumped into a 
Jeep and went looking for (he assailant's 
car When they found ihe car parked in 
front of a rivals house. Jeffs friend 
jumped out and pounded on it with a 
wiKKlrn ilutt But juM a> they were about 
lo tea\e. someone crept up and fired a 
shotgun blast through the back of their 
Jeep .letl ducked, and hi> friend was hit in 
the back and shoulder 

Il «-as th<- shoi>t-oui in August thai real- 
ly goi Bonnie s altenlion She decided to 
hghi Iwck and lormed ilte Benson Youth- 
Parent .Association which chaperones par- 
Ik's and paliols the siieels "There are 
dnvc-livv alt Ihe time she savs Thev 
dtin I evrii make Ihe neu .|);tpt'i Bonnie 
H;itnttv IViiMjn \\iili;i ih)Im csc-.iniiei . twnk- 
111^' on lu-i U-liel thai iihnliers .^ijll enjov 
Mimr dipJonuiiK mimunnx on the sireeis 
' II i won a iiiillion doll,ii> lumnirovv. Id 

buy a few buses, fill them with kids and flee 
Omaha," she says. Flee where'' **1 hadn't 
thought of that." she responds 

The mayhem has spawTied another 
group. MAD DADS, which stands for Men 
Against Desti^clion— Defending Against 
Drugs and Social Disorder They start 
praying about 10 o'ck>ck e\ery Friday 
night, just before they hit the streets 
armed with Iwo-wav radios, police scan- 
ners, video cameras and a gutsy determi- 
nation to stop kids from shooting one an- 
other. Seven men and two women bow 
Iheir heads around a small table in the 
one-slor). cinder-block command center 
in a rough part of tovai, hoping for peace, 
or al least enough rain to keep kids off Ihe 
streets for one more night "The hour is 
I getting laie. and our children need us." 
I says John Foster, a vice president of the 
cit> employees union, who founded the 
group four \ ears ago after his son wnsbad- 
l\ beaten Thepraxei is interiupu*d by the 
j sound ofagunshoi, followed shortly by the 
I wail of an ambulance Foster shakes his 
' head "ll sbecomini! S4t common. hesay.s 


Some ut our young people are turning 
inluroldWooded killers " 

Two weeks later, as Foster patrols the 
largely hlack. working-class neighbor- 
hoods in north Omaha, a gunshot crackles 
ihrough theair Koster turns the comer A 
mother and three children run tott3rd his 
car 'Some kids are shooting at people just 
down the street there. " says the woman, 
pointing nervT>usly. Foster circles the 
block, slow ing as he approaches a pack of 
kids mingling in front of a house. "We 
were Just having a party, a birthday par- 
ty." says one. "when these guys drive by 
■md Stan shooting at us." Twenty minutes 
later and only blocks away. Foster comes 
upon a teenage boy being treated by an 
ambulance team for a gunshot wound in 
the arm Its so sad." he says. "I remem- 
ber when you could settle things with fisti- 
cuffs. Man. that's antiquated now." 

gun-buyback programs last win- 
ter, offering up to $50 for a work- 
ing weapon, with no questions 
asked. On both days, they ran out 
of money within half an hour. To- 
tal haul; 588 guns, some turned in by juve- 
niles. "11 amazed me," saysC R. Bell, pres- 
ident of the Greater Omaha Chamber of 
Commerce In May mad dads staged an- 
other buyback after sending 100.000 flyers 
10 nine school districts. The take: 1.124 
guns, which will be welded into a monu- 
ment by a local artist Among them was 
Doug's 12-gauge shotgun. "I figured it was 
a safe way to get rid of it." Ooug says. "I 
did a lot ofcrazy things with that gun. and 
I didn't want to get caught with it " He 
plansongettinga handgun next. 

The birds disappeared from Tony's 
neighborhood in central Omaha when he 
was in the fourth grade, shortly after he 
got his first BB gun "I guess I shot a lot of 
animals." he says sheepishly Now he totes 
a sawed-off. 20-gauge. pump-aclion shol- 
ijun he bought for $20 last January from a 
lt>-year-old friend. "The grip was broken, 
so I got a good price." the 17-year-old says 
proudly He doesn't shoot birds anymore, 
but he fires an occasional salvo into the 
night sky around Omaha "Sometimes I 
just feel like busting it. you know. I just 
want to pull the trigger and torn.' " 

An only child. Tony has not seen his 
father since he was five. He is very pro- 
lective of his mother, a social worker. "1 
lold her she should get a 380. but she 
doesn't like guns. " he says. A senior this 
(all at Central High with plans to go on to 
college. Tony doesn't do drugs because he 
doesn't want them to interfere with his per- 
lormance on the football team He spurns 
ij.ings and lough-guy behavior, but feels he 
needs the gun "Us not a macho thing for 
me" he says "I mean. I'm not into fight- 
ing, and I ain't going to shoot anybody 
Kill when vou have a gun. you feel like 

'it's so sad. I remember when you could settle things 

can't nobody get you. You can't ge« got." 
Tony's mom learned he had a gun one 
Saturday night last May. "I ^t home 
around 2 a.m.. which is when I'm sup- 
posed to be in. and my mom says. 'Hurry 
inside, there's shooting going on.' I didn't 
believe her because we rarely have shoot- 
ing in our neighborhood, but 1 wasn't go- 
ing to take any chances, so I turned off all 
the lights a:.d got my shotgun from under 
my bed. She wasn't loo happy about it. but 
she's not going to take it away frt)m me." 

Tony wants it known that he is not 
nearly as wild as his friend. Mike, who 
admits to a quick temper and a violent 
streak Raised alternately by his divorced 
mother and father in Omaha. Mike was 16 
when he first saw someone get shot. "It 
was at a party." he says "This guy was 
hit in the chest with a 25 He just 
dropped " So far. Mike claims, he's been 
shot at five times, including the big gun- 
hght last August, which persuaded him 
not to travel unarmed "Sometimes you 
need a gun to get out of a situation." he 
says "You could be in a parking lot Just 

kicking it. and people start shooting." 
Mike started carrying a gun to school at 
Central High last winter, "i wasn't trying to 
be hard or anything It was just for protec- 
Iwn." says (he lanky 18-year-oM. who 
wears three gold earrings and bvors a 
Mack basetall cap emblazoned with a mari- 
juana leaf "1 don't know why, but stuff just 
staried getting hectic real rough. I mean 
you can get Jumped for no reason." The 
small. .2S-cal. Raven pistol, which he 
bought from a friend. 61 snugly in the pock- 
et of his winter vest. He even took it along 
to his telemarketing Job after work, where 
he earns $6.50 an hour manning the 
phones He says. "If people know you have 
agun.lheyjusldon'tmesswithyou." . 

Mike got caught last April after run- 
ning into a friend who had some pot in the 
school parlyng tot. "We smoked o lot." 
says Mike, who had his pistol in the right- 
hand pocket of his Jacket along with two 
clips, one full and the other empty. As ix' 
entered the school, a rubbery smile on In- 
face, a security guard slopped him am' 
look him to the principal's office. "Thrv 


fisticuffs. IVIan, that's antiquated now." 

knew I was high, and I was being a dick.'' 
he says. "They told me to empty my pock- 
ets, aiid I was like, man. everything bit me. 
I was like, £ I messed up!" At the po- 
lice station. Mike wolfed down a pizza and 
promptly fell asleep. 

and the court put him on probation 
for one year. He transferred to Ra- 
ther Flanagan High and managed 
to graduate in May. Like Tony, he 
intends to go to college and consid- 
ers all the gunplay just a part of growing up. 
"I'm a pretty normal guy," he says earnest- 
ly. "1 like to water-ski and read Stephen 
King books and stuff." He proudly an- 
nounces that he owns three different kinds 
of Bibles, which he likes to study. He says he 
prays every night. After his arrest, Mike's 
parents were supportive and enrolled him 
in therapy "My counselor saj's I'm suscep- 
tible to peer pressure." he says "I'm trying 
to work on thai" 

On a Saturday night in June. Mike and 
Tony cruise the town in Tony's six-year-old 

Fbrd subcompact lie windows are down, 
and the tape deck blasts one of their bwor- 
ite songs. Six Feel Deep by the Geto Boys, a 
Houston rap group. 'Tbny rocks back and 
forth to the music Mike wonders out k>ud 
how many kids are going to get shot this 
summer. "I bet one of our friends is gomg 
to get it," says Tony, who is wearing a 
Green Bay lackers cap and an Oakland 
Athletics shirt. "All the gun stuff used to be 
fiin, but now it's old. You can't even go to a 
party without worrying about being shot. 
Someone's always got a gun." Mike agrees 
and mentions the need to bring along 
friends: "You've got to go deep." 

They drop by Mike's two-story white 
house in a nice neighborhood in north- 
west Omaha, where he lives with his dad, 
so he can change baseball caps and grab 
some more tapes. "You have, like, a home 
life and a street life," he explains. "I'm so 
different at home you wouldn't believe i(." 
Back in the car, Ihey slow down occasion- 
ally to reach out through the windows and 
slap hands as Ihey pass friends who are 
hanging out "People think we are jusi 

punks and farmers In Omaha, but they're 
wrong," says Tony. "A tot happens here. 
It's Just a smaller scale than LA." 

Mike nervously taps his fingers 
■gainst the dashboard and (hen turns 
down (he music. "Don't you think it Is go- 
big (0 be pretty crazy this summer?" he 
asks, with a mixture of fear and excite- 
ment. "Real crazy." says Tony, who plans 
to sell his shotgun and get an easier-to- 
hide ,SS<aL pistol. Mike stares out the 
window, worrying about bow his proba- 
tionary status will leave him unarmed. 
"Man, Tbny," be says, shaking his bead 
slowly. "I Just don't see bow I'm going to 
get through this mimmer without s goB." 

Norman Johnson carries no gun aay- 
more, but for a different reason, (hie tfta>- 
noon last May, as be rode in the backseat 
of his cousin's Ford Escort on a dty street, 
a car pulled up and the occupants opoied 
fire. "I was Just laying in the backseat, you 
know, resting, when my biend says 
ttiere's a car right on our tail. Next thing 
you know, I felt this bicredible shock. No 
Boise, Just shock." A bullet slammed Into 
the back of Johnson's neck, crushing two 
vertebrae. "I kmked up, and I saw bullet 
boles in the window," he says, speaking in 
a raspy voice and pausing fi^equently to 
gasp for air. "I looked down at my body, 
and, well, I dkln't feel anything." 

Almost completely paralyzed from the 
neck down, Johnson, who is 6 ft. 3 in. and 
20 years old, spent the first month after 
the shooting on a breathing machhie. He 
tost 50 lbs. Between hours of physical ther- 
apy each day, Johnson has had plenty of 
time to rethink his attitude toward guns. 

The youngest of sbc and a high school 
dropout, Johnson drifted into gangs for 
support and identity. Asked wiiy he was 
shot, he says, "It's a long story," which 
means someone was out for revenge. Re- 
calling the streets, he tries to cling to some 
of his former toughness. "I guess I was 
just in the wrong place at the wrong time," 
he says. "It could happen to anyone." But 
that's not enough. "Sometimes it's so 
hard," he whispers. "1 get high tempera- 
tures and real sweaty, and 1 get these 
pains." He breathes on his own through a 
hole in his trachea, which a nurse closes 
with a plug when Johnson wants to talk. 
"At first I wanted to die. Now I'm happy to 
be alive, but I just want to get more feeling 
back." His voice is meek, beaten, almost 
hollow. When talk turns to football and 
basketball, he makes gulping, swallowing 
noises. Among cards and photos taped to 
the wall of his hospital bed. an old award 
certificate is proudly displayed. It reads, 


"I always loved sports, you know. 1 mean I 
was pretty good." He pauses for air. "I had 
speed." he murmurs. He is loo tired to 
continue. The nurse pulls the Irachea plug 


US Juvenile Weapons Arrests 


1982 '83 '84 '85 '86 '87 '88 '89 '90 '91 

Source: USDOJ Uniform Crime Report 

US Juvenile Murder Arrests 









1982 '83 '84 '85 '86 '87 '88 '89 '90 '91 

Source USDOJ Uniform Crime Report 

Wisconsin Juvenile Weapons Arrests 

2,500n 2.421 





1982 '83 '84 '85 '86 '87 '88 "89 '90 '91 '92 

Source: Wisconsin Office of Justice Assistance 

Wisconsin Juvenile Murder Arrests 

1982 '83 '84 '85 '86 '87 '88 '89 '90 '91 '92 

Source: Wisconsin Office of Justice Assistance 

75-909 (200) 

3 9999 03502 ^uy ^ 


ISBN 0-16-043928-0 

9 780160